Full Freeview on the Crystal Palace (Greater London, England) transmitter
This transmitter has no current reported problems
The BBC and Digital UK report there are no faults or engineering work on the Crystal Palace (Greater London, England) transmitter.
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The symbol shows the location of the Crystal Palace (Greater London, England) transmitter which serves 4,490,000 homes.
What do the colours on the map mean?
The bright green areas shown where the signal from this transmitter is strong, dark green areas are poorer signals. Those parts shown in yellow may have interference on the same frequency from other masts.List by multiplex|
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See terrain plotWhich Freeview channels does the Crystal Palace transmitter broadcast?
If you have any kind of Freeview fault, follow this
Freeview reset procedure first.
Digital television services are broadcast on a multiplexes (or Mux) where many stations occupy a single broadcast frequency, as shown below.
| Mux | Aerial position | Frequency | Height | Mode | Watts |
PSB1 BBCA | horizontal max | C23 (490.0MHz) | 324m | 64QAM 8K 2/3 24.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
|  1 BBC One London, 2 BBC Two England, 7 BBC Three, 9 BBC Four, 70 CBBC Channel, 71 CBeebies, 80 BBC News, 81 BBC Parliament, 301 BBC Red Button 1, plus 12 others 200 BBC Red Button, 700 BBC Radio 1, 701 BBC Radio 1Xtra, 702 BBC Radio 2, 703 BBC Radio 3, 704 BBC Radio 4, 705 BBC Radio 5 Live, 706 BBC Radio 5 Live Sports Extra, 707 BBC Radio 6 Music, 708 BBC Radio 4 Extra, 709 BBC Asian Network, 710 BBC World Service,
|
PSB2 D3+4 | horizontal max | C26 (514.0MHz) | 324m | 64QAM 8K 2/3 24.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
|  3 ITV (London), 4 Channel 4 London ads, 5 Channel 5 London ads, 6 ITV 2, 13 Channel 4+1 London ads, 14 More 4, 28 E4, 33 ITV +1 (London),
|
PSB3 BBCB | horizontal max | C30- (545.8MHz) | 324m | 256QAM 32KE 2/3 40.2Mb/s DVB-T2 MPEG4 | 200,000W |
|  101 BBC One HD (England no regional news), 102 BBC Two HD (England), 103 ITV HD (ITV London), 104 Channel 4 HD London ads, 303 BBC Red Button HD, plus 1 others 232 The Space,
|
COM4 SDN | horizontal max | C25 (506.0MHz) | 314m | 64QAM 8K 3/4 27.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
|  10 ITV 3, 20 G.O.L.D. (not free), 25 Dave ja vu, 26 Home (not free), 27 ITV 2 +1, 30 5*, 31 5USA, 34 ESPN UK (not free), 38 Quest, 39 The Zone, 44 Channel 5 +1, 72 CITV, plus 21 others Bluebird 1, ADULT Playboy, 16 QVC, 23 Bid TV, 49 The Jewellery Channel, 170 ADULT Section, 171 Television X, 180 XxXpanded TV, 201 Teletext Hols, 202 Rabbit, 203 Gay Rabbit, 204 1-2-1 Dating, 228 Christian, 229 CONNECT 2, 230 VISION2, 234 CONNECT 4, 235 God TV, 236 Sony SAB TV Asia, 724 Capital FM, 727 Absolute Radio, 728 Heart,
|
COM5 ArqA | horizontal max | C22 (482.0MHz) | 321m | 64QAM 8K 3/4 27.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
|  11 PICK TV, 12 Dave, 17 Really, 29 E4+1, 32 Movie Mix, 46 Challenge, 48 Food Network, 82 Sky News, 87 Community Channel, 302 BBC Red Button 2, plus 9 others 36 Create and Craft, 37 Price Drop TV, 43 Gems TV 1, 173 ADULT smileTV3, 175 ADULT PARTY, 176 ADULT Blue, 177 Babestation Xtra, 206 SkyText, 723 talkSPORT,
|
COM6 ArqB | horizontal max | C28- (529.8MHz) | 321m | 64QAM 8K 3/4 27.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
|  15 Film 4, 18 4Music, 19 Yesterday, 21 VIVA, 24 ITV 4, 41 Sky Sports 1 (not free), 42 Sky Sports 2 (not free), 47 4seven, 83 Al Jazeera English, 85 RT English , plus 22 others heat, 0 Argos TV, 22 Ideal World, 35 QVC Beauty, 40 Rocks and Co 1, 172 ADULT smileTV2, 174 Babestation, 199 ADULT Section, 225 VISION, 226 CCTV, 227 Sports, 231 Racing TV , 306 Channel Zero, 711 The Hits radio, 712 Smash Hits!, 713 Kiss, 714 KISSTORY, 715 Magic, 716 Q, 717 Kerrang!, 718 Smooth radio, 725 Premier Radio,
|
Which BBC and ITV regional news can I watch from the Crystal Palace transmitter?
Are there any self-help relays?
| Charlton Athletic | Transposer | Redeveloped north stand Charlton Athletic Football Club | 130 homes |
| Deptford | Transposer | south-east London | 100 homes |
| Greenford | Transposer | 12 km N Heathrow Airport | 203 homes |
| Hendon | Transposer | Graham Park estate | 50 homes |
| White City | Transposer | 9 km W central London | 80 homes |
How will the Crystal Palace (Greater London, England) transmission frequencies change over time?
| years | 1950s~85 | 1984-97 | 1997-98 | 1998-2012 | 2012-13 | 2013-18 | 2013-18 | |
| aerial group | VHF | A K | A K | A K | A K | A K | A K | |
| C1 | BBCtv | | | | | | | |
| C22 | | | | -2 | ArqA | ArqA | ArqA | |
| C23 | | ITV | ITV | ITV | BBCA | BBCA | BBCA | |
| C25 | | | | -1 | SDN | SDN | SDN | |
| C26 | | BBC1 | BBC1 | BBC1 | D3+4 | D3+4 | D3+4 | |
| C28 | | | | -B | -ArqB | -ArqB | -ArqB | |
| C29 | | | | -D | | | local | |
| C30 | | C4 | C4 | C4 | -BBCB | -BBCB | -BBCB | |
| 600 | C32 | | | | -A | | | | |
| C33 | | BBC2 | BBC2 | BBC2 | | | com7 | |
| C34 | | | | +C | | | | |
| C35 | | | | | | | com8 | |
| orange background for multiplexes names more | green background for transmission frequencies | lilac background for power levels in watts | 800MHz band: 4G mobile to start in 2013 | 700MHz band: possible 4G in 2019 more | 600MHz band: new or moved digital TV services more |
Notes:
+ and
- denote 166kHz offset; aerial group are shown as
A B C/D E K WItalics for
analogue, digital switchover was Wednesdays 4th April and 18th April 2012.
- Ofcom have projected that a local television service for London including Greater London area could use an Interleaved Frequency on the Crystal Palace transmitter using C29
- COM7, COM8 projected for 2013-16. COM7 and COM8 to operate as Crystal Palace,Guildford, Reigate SFN.
How do the old analogue and currrent digital signal levels compare?
| Analogue 1-4 | 1000kW | |
| SDN, ARQA, ARQB, com7, com8, BBCA, D3+4, BBCB | (-7dB) 200kW | |
| Mux 1*, Mux 2*, Mux A*, Mux B*, Mux C*, Mux D* | (-17dB) 20kW | |
| PreDSO-BBCB* | (-20dB) 10kW | |
Which companies have run the Channel 3 services in the Crystal Palace transmitter area
| Sep 1955-Jul 1968 | Associated-Rediffusion† |
| Sep 1955-Jul 1968 | Associated TeleVision◊ |
| Jul 1968-Dec 1992 | Thames† |
| Jul 1968-Feb 2004 | London Weekend Television♦ |
| Jan 1993-Feb 2004 | Carlton† |
| Feb 2004-Dec 2014 | ITV plc† |
| Feb 2004-Dec 2014 | ITV plc♦ |
| | Feb 1983-Dec 1992 | TV-am• |
| Jan 1993-Sep 2010 | GMTV• |
| Sep 2010-Dec 2014 | ITV Daybreak• |
|
• Breakfast ◊ Weekends ♦ Friday night and weekends † Weekdays only. Crystal Palace was not an original Channel 3 VHF 405-line mast: the historical information shown is the details of the company responsible for the transmitter when it began transmitting Channel 3.
Your comments: most recent posts are at the bottom
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Your comments are always welcome. Please use the form below to add your thoughts or questions to this page. We will get back to you as soon as we can.
D
Dave TaylorWednesday 8 August 2012 1:19PM
David Taylor:
Hi Guys,
When Freeview Digital was first started I
purchased a box but got "no signal" message
(see original posts)
After full switch over all worked ok, except I had to buy two new TV's.
My house is in a dead spot and analogue
reception was never very good.
Yesterday I turned on TV and we were back to
the state we were in before, with no signal
messages and frozen picture etc.
Nothing has changed with my aerial etc.
Have they reduced the signal strength?Dave Taylor: I have read back your postings.
I have observed that the White Oak Leisure Centre could be in the (or under the) signal path at 850m away (just over half a mile). I mention this because it appears to have a large metalic content.
This terrain plot shows that you could have line-of-sight, assuming no obstructions:
Terrain between ( m a.g.l.) and (antenna m a.g.l.) - Optimising UK DTT Freeview and Radio aerial location
Perhaps the poor reception at your location is caused reflections that are acting to reduce the quality or signal strength. D
Dave TaylorWednesday 8 August 2012 3:27PM
Thanks for reply
What I can't understand is why I've suddenly
lost the signal unless the power from the transmitter has fallen.
Could well be White Oak Centre causing a
dead spot.
Don't have line of sight to transmitter as
I'm down a dip.
DaveB
BonnieSunday 12 August 2012 12:01PM
Feltham I have had "no signal" coming up for the last three days, I can not get any channels at all, my aerial is brand new as is my freeview box, it says on the websites that the crystal palace transmitter is off air, but only on the 9th of August, please could someone tell me if I am doing something wrong or if it is a fault that I can not fix myself and if so, when will this be fixedJ
jb38Sunday 12 August 2012 4:32PM
Bonnie: Where is your aerial located? my only reason for asking being that "if" (as I realise you might not) you reside in the beige brick properties then the aerials mounted at each end of them appear to be of a communal nature serving the apartments within each block, and as such obviously out with your control as far as doing anything is concerned.
However the reception predictor indicates Crystal Palace as being able to provide a good signal at your location, but though the aerials referred to appear to be pointing towards Guildford and likewise mounted vertically, and although Guildford is also indicated as receivable at your location its not quite at Crystal Palace levels.
That said, if your box has a manual tuning facility then for a test go into the tuning menu - "manual tune" and enter Ch23 (BBC from Crystal Palace) then press search or scan and see if anything comes up, if not change to number to Ch43 (BBC Guildford) and carry out the same test, giving an update on results.
It would also be of assistance to know the brand / model of box you are using.
D
Dave TaylorSunday 12 August 2012 8:19PM
Hi Guys,
Just to update you about my problem.
Having had no signal for some days I was going to get out my three piece ladder on Saturday to check the aerial.
I turned on TV to try it and lo and behold
the signal had returned and all was back to
normal.Still don't know what the cause was,
Just another of lifes mysteries I guess
Dave
CRYSTAL PALACE transmitter - Freeview BBC Digital TV Off Air from 23:18 on 09 Aug to 23:19 on 09 Aug [BBC] Over the next week Crystal Palace main transmitter: TV (digital) Liable to interruption, Radio (analogue) working normally, Radio (digital) working normally. [DUK] CRYSTAL PALACE transmitter - Freeview BBC Digital TV Off Air from 23:18 on 09 Aug to 23:19 on 09 Aug [BBC] Over the next week Crystal Palace main transmitter: TV (digital) Liable to interruption, Radio (analogue) working normally, Radio (digital) working normally. [DUK] L
LorryWednesday 15 August 2012 12:06AM
All bbc channels on freeview are currently down and have been for at least an hour. (Tues 14/8 11pm on). Why can I find no information on this, ie is it planned or is it a fault and when is it expected to return?. (crystal palace).Lorry.One indicator is the transmitter engineering text immediately above your text.Crystal Palace main transmitter TV digital liable to interruption.
Yes sometimes the transmitter engineering texts should be more transparent as such in advance of any ongoing works or interruptions so we are well prepared as such. M
MagsSaturday 18 August 2012 7:09PM
I had no signal at all for 4 days, now only very blocky and unwatchable signal, with still no BBC for 3 days...in the E3 area. Any clues what I can do or when normal service will be resumed?Mags.As you did not leave a full postcode preferably to ascertain reception possibilities in your area,i would look up inversion effect as a likely culprit ! J
jb38Saturday 18 August 2012 8:45PM
Mark Fletcher: Digital UK's post code reception predictor (only this side of it) appears to have been down since yesterday evening, have you seen anything mentioned about this anywhere? JB38.Not particularly aware of the postcode reception predictor being faulty last night,but i was certainly aware of gremlins elsewhere on this site as i was unable to respond to any texters yesterday as well as unable to click on any other link without the associated gobbledegook cropping up.
It appears that the postcode predictor on this site is functioning again as i am staying in Barnsley this week and hopefully by typing in the postcode of my recent holiday in St Annes (end of June 2012),Lytham St Annes crops up instead it for now (postcode predictor) should be working normally once again,fingers crossed ! J
jb38Sunday 19 August 2012 12:28AM
Mark Fletcher: Thanks Mark, yes I also noticed a few odd things cropping up yesterday, but I would be obliged if you could try a test by clicking on the "Digital UK tradeview" link at the right hand side of your posting, as I have just tried it and DUK states "Error - we seem to be having difficulties etc". JB38:Just typed in your request and exactly the same scenario here,"Error we seem to be having difficulties" even typed in the postcode and house number same "Error" message displayed !
So there are some technical difficulties still ongoing as i text ! J
jb38Sunday 19 August 2012 7:22AM
Mark Fletcher: Thanks for your confirmation on that, as when I didn't seen the problem being referred anywhere else I was starting to get a bit concerned in case the problem was at my end, and so when I noticed that you were on I thought I would take my chance and enquire.
M
MichaelSunday 19 August 2012 11:49AM
London My digibox and HD recorder are still messing around. Tne Toshiba HD recorder retuned itself to a different transmitter this morning.
Main development: I took the digibox to my father's house half a mile away, where reception used to be worse pre-switchover, and where he used a loft aerial. Sure enough, signal strength on the digibox was about 49%. but signal quality was rock solid at 98%, pretty consistently over the muxes. I checked by phone that the HD recorder was still playing up at home at the same time.
This contrasts with the same digibox at out house showing signal strength of 85-90% and signal quality varying (and I mean varying, as you watch it) of 70-85% on UHF Ch 23 and 26 and 45-65% on the others. The corresponding readings on the HD recorder are 70-75% strength and 48-63% and 25-60% quality. These readings are for when there is a problem. When there isn't (typically in the afternoons) quality is consistent at around 75 or 70%.
So, it's not the digibox (or presumably the recorder) gone wrong. It is the signal quality, or the variation in the signal quality. The digital TV can cope with this but the digibox and recorder cannot.
I intend to do the same test next door when the neighbours are back, which should indicate whether it is the signal coming into the aerial or something between aerial and equipment. That "something" might be a powered signal splitter (and presumably amplifier) in the loft, given that could simply be amplifying errors, but the same setup has been working fine for years, and for several months post-switchover. And the signal strength reported by the HD recorder (and the digibox?) does not seem excessive on the face of it. I'm reluctant to mess around when I still think the incoming signal may be at fault, to the extent that the HD recorder thinks a dodgy signal from elsehwere is better. I have already had engineers round checking that the signal coming from the aerial is OK. They reported that it was fine at around 70% BUT when they came the setup seemed to be behaving I don't know for sure that they also looked at signal quality.
I was surprised that everything functioned with only 49% signal strength but I was even more surprised at the very high signal quality. What should I expect for quality? Should it work on a nice consistent 70% quality, say?
I have a horrible feeling that the answer to this one is "it depends", but would my Toshiba recorder base its retuning decision on strength, quality or a mixture of both?
Annoyingly, none of the televisions we have appear to indicate strength and quality separately, simply giving an overall measure.
The only other possibility I can think of which is unrelated to what is emerging from Crystal Palace, is the Shard. I dismissed this in my mind as the building was essentially there for some time before its opening a few weeks back, but is it possible that some cladding was added late in the day? I know that a small area of Ponders End had issues with Canary Wharf, for example, so a very localised effect is not impossible.
J
jb38Sunday 19 August 2012 12:35PM
Mark Fletcher / Dave Lindsay: Just tested out DUK's post code reception checker and pleased to be able to say that the problem appears to have been rectified. jb38: Thanks for posting about DUK Postcode Checker working now. I tried it an hour or so back and it was still off. It is now working for me. JB38:Just clicked the digital UK tradeview link to the side of my last text and now working normally again ! J
jb38Sunday 19 August 2012 4:49PM
Dave Lindsay / Mark Fletcher: Yes thanks, and long may it continue to do so, as it's an essential aid into providing assistance to anyone with problems of a reception nature, as without it anyone providing assistance is (up to a point anyway!) just about as much in the dark as the person seeking help, and in many cases with that even applying when the person seeking assistance has provided non-post code info on their location.M
MichaelMonday 20 August 2012 11:13AM
London Michael: To add to my last night's post, I found the HD recorder getting BBC1 etc off 698K this morning. After wiping all chanells as usual, for a change I let it do an auto retune. I found that while it did pick up Ch23 successfully it then went on to pick up the same mux on other UHF channels, evidently overwriting the Ch23-generated ones (i e not storing them as 801+). This was despite the Crystal Palace signal being stronger and of higher quality than the alternatives. However, it does dispose of the theory that Crystal Palace must somehow be next to non-existent at 8am. Hard to know why the HD recorder is doing this. But if the signal as received by the tuner was as it was six weeks ago, presumably it would not be!P
Peter SuthersTuesday 21 August 2012 10:22AM
Several times since Chrystal Palace Digital Switch Over, messages appear informing that new TV Channels are available & suggest a re-scan.
Does anyone know where one can find information regarding what the changes are each time?
Due to the height of my block I have to manually tune all 5 of my receivers (TV, DVD, PC & 2 x PVR) to prevent reception from other transmitters.
This is only worth it if the changes are relevant to me. I'm not interested in data & chat channels (& most of the TV channels to be honest, the guy who sang "57 channels & nothing on" was a prophet for our times).M
MichaelTuesday 21 August 2012 11:42AM
London Michael: Peter - I am probably wrong but I have a suspicion that the "new services" detected may be the same old services coming from a different transmitter.M
MichaelThursday 30 August 2012 2:48PM
London Michael: Finally tried our digibox next door. Same result as at my father's house - reduced signal strength, steady 98% quality, fine picture.
So we have:
- digital TVs that work fine on our signal;
- a digibox and a HD recorder which do not work on our signal, producing a lot of pixellation and breakup, but the digibox does work next door and (in a dip) at my father's house. I haven't moved the HD recorder but I am assuming it would also work elsewhere;
- one older digital TV (not mentioned before) which is a bit iffy;
- results similar whichever TV points I use, and whatever configurations of equipment and cabling I use.
- it was worse in mornings and evenings, but more recently yhe problem seems to there all day.
- an aerial engineer confirmed some weeks a go that the signal as received at the TV point was OK, but (a) I'm not sure he looked at quality as wella s strength and (b) it was behaving when they called.
So it appears that the digibox, HD recorder and (to some extent) older digital TV cannot cope with the low (and highly variable) signal quality, but the newer digital TVs can.
There are four TV points in the house, fed from a rooftop aerial with a distribution amplifier/splitter in the loft. As far as I know there is no masthead amplifier (not sure how I can tell, though).
If I switch off the amplifier, the signal goes, as I would expect. So to test if it is the problem I would have to mess around up in the loft playing around with what I have found in the past to be rather awkward connections.
With this setup, is it possible that I could have too much signal strength, and that quality problems not apparent next door are being amplified into something which is upsetting half my equipment?
Is there anything else I can try?
J
jb38Friday 31 August 2012 12:39AM
Michael: I was having a look back through your various earlier postings for purposes of checking the history of your problems, but though whilst doing so came across a statement that appeared somewhat contradictory and which I couldn't quite fathom out, and so I would be obliged if you could clarify the following as far as the devices you are using to receive Freeview is concerned.
The statements referred to being:
>> Our main TV is analogue so has to be fed by either out Toshiba RDXV59DTJB2 HDD recorder or our (very) old Sagem Freeview box. <<
>> Is it plausible that the recorder and Freeview boxes are unable to cope with quality variations that are no problem to the TV? <<
What TV is being referred to in the latter statement?
However no matter what is being referred to it should be appreciated that no two Freeview devices have the same sensitivity tuners unless they are identical models to each other, this being the cause of the differences in performance that you have noticed, Panasonic TV's and Humax boxes being devices fitted with two of the best tuners around, and capable of giving reasonably glitch free reception in circumstances where other devices would be glitching every 30 secs or so.
The other point to remember being, that if when observing a signal its strength and quality is seen to be continually fluctuating (especially quality) when its known that your aerial is electrically sound as far as bad connections are concerned, then the problem is in effect out with your control, as its liable to be caused by either atmospheric reasons allowing distant stations to be picked up thereby blocking local reception, or that the problem is due to the intermittent effect of tree foliage blowing about, worse obviously if wet.
In both cases about the only thing a person can do is make sure that the signal being received is at a high enough level above their receivers cut off threshold whereby when the signal drifts downwards its still above the cut off point and not constantly dipping under it.
Occasionally moving the aerial a few feet either way (left or right) can help the situation, but frequently its at the expense of some other mux, so its really a hit and miss situation. M
MichaelFriday 31 August 2012 7:22PM
London Michael: Ah yes. The main TV is an old analogue one so has to be fed via SCART from a box with a digital tuner.
The other TVs in the house are digital, an LG, a Mikomi (Argos own brand?) and a Samsung borrowed from my father. The Mikomi was a bit iffy on Ch 22/23/28 muxes at times but the others were working fine.
I said "were", you may have noticed. The LG got really bad on those muxes a couple of nights ago, and the digibox has also started playing up. The Mikomi also got much worse. No footie for me last night!
Then today I switched off the distribution amplifier in the loft, expecting this to lose nearly all the signal. But no, the HD recorder worked fine. So too the Samsung and the LG, though later that started to be really bad on the Ch 26 mux. The Mikomi in the kitchen seemed to lose signal altogether, but at the main TV point it worked better than usual. So, for the first time, I was onserving differences between different TV points in the house.
The signal strength shown on the kit that can show it was a lot lower. Quality seemed more settled (and sometimes consistently high) - except where a tuner was having problems. The digibox is better, but not by much.
This does seem to suggest that the problem for the HD recorder was too strong a signal. But reducing the overall signal by switching off the amp seems to cause other kit problems, at least in some locations. Trying to amplify it at some points and attenuate it in others would surely be a complex trial and error exercise.
Every time I write this stuff up, something else occurs which does not seem to fit the pattern. I'm starting to think that the distribution amp is malfunctioning, particularly as the problems were not there until a few weeks ago. Deterioration of internal cable, perhaps?
Outside foliage seems an unlikely culprit, as next door, with a similar aerial (and similar Freeview via a box) setup shows nice level quality. The main change in the immediate locality has actually been the removal of a large pine!
The whole think s starting to make my head hurt!J
jb38Friday 31 August 2012 11:11PM
Michael: One particular thing you have said is extremely interesting, this being the results you obtained with the distribution amplifier switched off, because although distribution amplifiers boost the signal to varying degrees dependant on the spec of the model used, on the other hand when they (all types) are switched off they act like an attenuator having been placed in line with the aerial, this being why if done on an analogue signal it always resulted in a grainy picture.
The point about this situation being, that you must be receiving a reasonably good level of signal at your location for it to overcome the attenuation effect of an unpowered amplifier being in line, and so although I realise that you obviously require the distribution amplifier for purposes of feeding the signal to other locations its possible that the overall signal level created by this is slightly too high (for some devices) whereby an attenuator being placed in-line with the amplifiers "input" could help the situation, as an excessive level of signal displays exactly the same symptoms to one that's on the weak side, including "false" low signal indications caused by instability in the tuner.
I would therefore suggest that you try a test on one of the TV's by connecting its feed directly onto the aerial lead that feeds into the distribution amplifier albeit I do realise that in most cases this is a bit inconvenient to arrange, but though its the type of test that is necessary to evaluate what's happening.
Another point to note is, and although very unlikely to be applicable in your situation, but on "some" occasions when the signal quality is observed to be continually fluctuating this can also be due to a signal being on the verges of being excessively high, because signals in non line-of-sight situations tend to drift up and downwards in strength throughout a 24 hour period, and if they are hovering at the top end of high (with good quality) and they drift slightly further upwards then as soon as that happens the quality drops, this resulting in the fluctuations referred to.
J
jb38Saturday 1 September 2012 7:33AM
Michael: Just a small addition to that said, its not exactly unknown for a distribution amplifiers internal power supply to fail and especially during the warm weather, and so although what was mentioned about the amplifier still applies in every way its best to check that its still working.
The procedure is to have the amplifier switched on and carry out a signal strength / quality on a reasonably stable channel noting the readings, then connect the TV' aerial feed straight into the aerial and carry out a second check noting what the difference is, and provided an excessive level of signal is not upsetting the readings what's indicated with the direct aerial connection should be "slightly" lower than before.
If though its higher, then either the amp is defective or the signal level is excessive.
By the way, I will not personally be available to give further assistance until about next weekend as I will be on holiday, although someone else will probably answer any query you might have. M
MichaelSaturday 1 September 2012 12:34PM
London Michael: Thanks, jb38. It was my experience with analogue which made me expect little or no picture, rather than a better picture, with the amp off, so what transpired was a major surprise to me.
I had wondered about putting an attenuator in line near the equipement but it would be guesswork as to how much I need.
Carrying TVs or other digital equipment up to the loft is liable to result in not having said digital equipment in working condition any more, which is one reason why I have not tried it yet. (Would a long cable down to floor level be expected to work? Think I've got some spare cable - without connectors - somewhere. I suppose that with a suitable connector - whatever it might be - I could connect each cable directly to the aerial as well.) The other is that the connections look awkward to me, and if there is a way of terminally messing up the cable, I will probably find it!
I think it is clear that the amp was amplifying the signal that the digibox and HD recorder were using, as the signal strength they show is markedly lower without and the signal has either been lost or is seriously degraded at other points. That's not the test you suggest, of course. I've been careful to say "amplifying the signal" rather than "working" because it might be doing so in a highly variable manner. If the PSU is giving a jerky supply, might that cause the behaviour I am observing? PSUs are usually presented as being specific to one device but I think I have a variable one knocking around somewhere, so it might be worth trying that (cue exploding amp in loft...).
Whatever is going on, it is something that has only been going on seriously for about eight weeks. As the aerial signal seems strong enough unamplified, and the kit I have tried elsewhere works fine, a malfuctioning amp does seem to be the fault that best fits the bill.
However, thinking about it, there have been some smaller, easily dismissed, deteriorations before this. In particular, I have a TV card in my computer connected to one point, and 9 times out of 10 I get a green mass of pixellation at the foot of the picture. Yet 1 time out of 10 it is fine! That's been the case since I got the computer a couple of years ago, but of course the cause could be completely, er, unconnected.
As it happens, I have even got the digibox working off the unamplified signal at the main point this morning. It does seem inconsistent, and I do worry that deterioration arising from the constant swapping around of cables might itself be an issue. I think I'll leave well alone for the weekend and see what happens.
Just for the record, there are four outputs from the amp, servicing five TV points. One of the cables must split out of sight; I think this is the one to the points which now seem dead, which makes sense as they would get the least signal at all.
Finally, thanks for all your help, and enjoy your holiday!
M
MichaelSunday 2 September 2012 1:43PM
London Michael: Just an update. Tested the power supply and it gives a steady 5 volts DC, as it should do. Suggests to me that it has to be the amplifier/splitter itself. M
MichaelWednesday 5 September 2012 9:04PM
London Michael: Sorted! Aerial technician replaced the splitter/amplifier with a straightforward splitter, and eveything works.
He said that the aerial was actually picking up too much signal. Also that when I unplugged the splitter/amp, the improved (but still variable) signal seen on the main TV was being picked up purely by the cable between the splitter and the aerial point, that cable being high quality and (if it matters) outside the house.
This begs a number of questions (though I am not too worried now everything is fine). If the aerial signal was too strong, how did it work before? My guess is that when it was working properly the amplification was less than the attenuation provided by splitting. At some stage it stopped splitting the signal properly, hence overload on some aerial points and poor or no signal on others. But what do I know?
Anyway, I have to eat humble pie about blaming it all on the Crystal Palace signal.
The other question, I suppose, is why the excessive signal was not diagnosed by the earlier technicians I had in. In their defence, things seemed to be working OK that morning, and the deterioration at other times was less than more recently; they only checked the output at one aerial point as well, rather than the input to the splitter.
So long and thanks for all the fish...E
ERnest CookSunday 9 September 2012 10:45AM
Billericay I cannot get HD signal ihave a new aerial and a new tv
Reception of non HD is perfectS
Susan LockFriday 21 September 2012 12:21PM
For the last week (15th-21st September 2012) I have been driven round the bend with my LG TV that loses the EPG after about 3 minutes rendering my TV useless if I want to change the channel or record anything. I have to turn it off then on again to change channel before the EPG is gone again. I have rescanned for the channels loads of times. I have checked the signal strength and it has now dropped from 70 to 67 and today 65. During the cut over I found that under 70 my TV had a mind of its own and just did not function properly since it loses the EPG data which seems to be the main brain of the TV system. How long is this 'tinkering' with the signal going to last since it must be effecting a large section of Freeview customers?G
GrahamFriday 21 September 2012 12:32PM
Sort it out you knob jockeysR
RichardSaturday 22 September 2012 9:34AM
Good morning Susan, Sorry to hear of your problems. Just a few questions - how new is the aerial installation? The reason for asking is that old i.e. more than say 10 years, cables can get moisture in them which will reduce the signal slowly over a long period. It seems that your signal is getting weaker and that may be the cause. The solution is to get an aerial rigger to replace the cable. You may in addition need a mast head amplifier to boost the signal. I have two LG TVs and they both work very well. S
Susan LockSaturday 22 September 2012 10:54AM
Hi Richard - thank you for your input. You may have a point since I live in a flat and the installation is probably nearly 20 years old. I will ask our Estate Manager to ask for an engineer to test and inspect the wiring and also check the aerial type plus whether a new booster is needed for the main aerial. My neighbour upstairs has a different model of LG but is experiencing similar problems though not so drastic. Last night was great since the signal picked up to 70 and the set behaved itself. I hope it stays at that level since I want to record Montelbano tonight - my favourite series. L
lj.jewiss@hotmail.co.ukSaturday 22 September 2012 2:30PM
recd a message to retune as tv listings had been updated - did so yest 21/9/12 pm no initial probs. however today had lost some itv progs so retuned again have now lost all progs ! have also spoken to relatives who live 8 miles away and they are experiencing the same problems - can u please let me know what the problem is after reading revious postings it would appear that this is quite widespread issue and not the fault of 'old arials' as suggested !!!!J
jb38Saturday 22 September 2012 11:26PM
lj.jewiss@hotmail.co.uk: Its not really possible for anyone to be able to give assistance for queries of this nature without having knowledge of your location, this in the form of a post code or one from somewhere nearby (a shop etc) as only then can the signal levels expected at your location be assessed as well as details of the transmitting station involved. A
AndrewSunday 23 September 2012 7:12PM
We have also experienced problems with major signal drop-outs and the TV squawking it's way through programmes, absolutely useless in the morning.
We have changed nothing and its affects ALL or digital TVs.
Crystal Palace MUST be fiddling with the output strength.B
Big MartSunday 23 September 2012 11:17PM
I did the switchover today. The tv seems okay. However my Sony Freeview HD recorder has a 'sort of' a problem! Prior to this switchover I could not receive the HD channels through it, the picture would just break up. It wasn't a great hassle I would record off the 'normal' channels. Now, since the changeover the HD channels don't appear on the EPG. Is it worth going through the process again? I presume I am never likely to receive a good HD signal through it.B
Big MartMonday 24 September 2012 10:27AM
Update to the above. I did do the rescan again this morning on the recorder (this time after unplugging it - previously I only ran it without the aerial connected). This time it has picked up the HD channels, but they are still completely unwatchable with the picture completely broken up.A
ann YilmaMonday 24 September 2012 4:37PM
London I have a samsung tv with freeview which has been working well since the re tuning when se12 9ab went digital.However recently I have had to retune on a number of occasions because all channels have just disappeared due to 'weak or no signal'. When it happened again on Saturday 22nd sept I tried re tuning but cannot pick up any channel.It is now monday 24th sept and still no service. Siganl from crystal palace is supposed to be working normally. Please advise. I am paying a licence fee for nothing at the moment. J
jb38Monday 24 September 2012 5:40PM
ann Yilma: As you are located at a distance of only 5 miles from the station you have to beware in case the level of signal received is slightly excessive for the TV's tuner, as this will give "exactly" the same signal indications to that of a signal that's too weak.
You have not mentioned anything regarding the aerial being used, but for a test carry out another retune using a standard set top aerial, should you be able to borrow one!
Further info dependant on findings.