Freeview: Sudbury (Suffolk, England) full-Freeview transmitter
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Freeview on the Sudbury (Suffolk, England) transmitter

Google StreetviewGoogle mapBing mapGoogle Earth52.005,0.786 or 52°0'17"N 0°47'8"ECO10 5NG

4G at 800MHz (at800) Freeview reception issues

When 800MHz 4G mobile broadband services start there will be 1 multiplex in the higher risk range (C21-23, C30, C59-60): C60: ArqA
See How do I know if the 4G broadband will overload my Freeview? and Full UK map of 4G issue areas for details.

Transmitter fauls and engineering works



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The symbol shows the location of the Sudbury transmitter which serves 440,000 homes.

Other maps:Sudbury regionBBC EastAnglia (East micro region)

Radiation patterns

Radiation patterns withheld

Map key

The bright green areas shown where the signal from this transmitter is strong, dark green areas are poorer signals. Those parts shown in yellow may have interference on the same frequency from other masts.

Sudbury transmitter Freeview broadcasts

If you have any kind of Freeview fault, follow this Freeview reset procedure first.

Digital television services are broadcast on a multiplexes (or Mux) where many stations occupy a single broadcast frequency, as shown below. The rating shown takes in account the output power level and the various Freeview transmission modes and do not indicate an ongoing fault.

MuxEffective power level, aerial positionRatingModeWatts
PSB1
BBCA
 horizontal
Maximum64QAM 8K 2/3
24.1Mb/s
DVB-T MPEG2		100,000
Channel icons
1 BBC One East, 2 BBC Two England, 7 BBC Three, 9 BBC Four, 70 CBBC Channel, 71 CBeebies, 80 BBC News, 81 BBC Parliament, 301 301, plus 12 others
• as a digital multiplex transmitted on frequency C44 (658.0MHz) from 229m datum.
PSB2
D3+4
 horizontal
Maximum64QAM 8K 2/3
24.1Mb/s
DVB-T MPEG2		100,000
Channel icons
3 ITV (Anglia (East micro region)), 4 Channel 4 South ads, 5 Channel 5 Part Network ads, 6 ITV 2, 13 Channel 4+1 South ads, 14 More 4, 28 E4, 33 ITV +1 (Anglia east),
• as a digital multiplex transmitted on frequency C41 (634.0MHz) from 229m datum.
PSB3
BBCB
 horizontal
Maximum256QAM 32KE 2/3
40.2Mb/s
DVB-T2 MPEG4		100,000
Channel icons
101 BBC One HD (England no regional news), 102 BBC Two HD (England), 103 ITV HD (ITV Meridian Southampton), 104 Channel 4 HD South ads, plus 1 others
• as a digital multiplex transmitted on frequency C47 (682.0MHz) from 229m datum.
COM4
SDN
 horizontal
Maximum64QAM 8K 2/3
24.1Mb/s
DVB-T MPEG2		100,000
Channel icons
10 ITV 3, 20 G.O.L.D. (not free), 25 Dave ja vu, 26 Home (not free), 27 ITV 2 +1, 30 5*, 31 5USA, 34 ESPN UK (not free), 38 Quest, 39 The Zone, 44 Channel 5 +1, 72 CITV, plus 22 others
• as a digital multiplex transmitted on frequency C58 (770.0MHz) from 186m datum.
COM5
ArqA
 horizontal
Maximum64QAM 8K 3/4
27.1Mb/s
DVB-T MPEG2		100,000
Channel icons
 TV News,  TV Stars, 11 PICK TV, 12 Dave, 17 Really, 29 E4+1, 32 Movie Mix, 46 Challenge, 48 Food Network, 82 Sky News, 87 Community Channel, plus 9 others
• as a digital multiplex transmitted on frequency C60- (785.8MHz) from 228m datum.
COM6
ArqB
 horizontal
Maximum64QAM 8K 3/4
27.1Mb/s
DVB-T MPEG2		100,000
Channel icons
15 Film 4, 18 4Music, 19 Yesterday, 21 VIVA, 24 ITV 4, 41 Sky Sports 1 (not free), 42 Sky Sports 2 (not free), 47 4seven, 83 Al Jazeera English, 85 RT English , plus 21 others
• as a digital multiplex transmitted on frequency C56 (754.0MHz) from 228m datum.


Regional news from the Sudbury transmitter


BBC Look East (East) 0.8m homes 3.2%
from Norwich NR2 1BH, 77km north-northeast
to BBC East region - 27 masts.

ITV Anglia News 0.8m homes 3.2%
from NORWICH NR1 3JG, 78km north-northeast
to ITV Anglia (East) region - 26 masts.

Self-help relays

Felixstowe WestTransposer1000 homes +1000 or more homes due to expansion of affected area?
WithamTransposer14 km NE Chelmsford.118 homes

How the transmission frequencies change over time

years1984-971997-981998-20112011-132013-182013-18
aerial groupB EB EEEEW
600C31com7
C35C5C5
C37com8
C39B
C41ITVITVITVD3+4D3+4D3+4
C44BBC2BBC2BBC2BBCABBCABBCA
C47C4C4C4BBCBBBCBBBCB
C48+A
700C49+1
C50+D
C51BBC1BBC1BBC1
C54C
C56ArqBArqBArqB
C58SDNSDNSDN
C60-ArqA-ArqA-ArqA
800C682

orange background for multiplexes names moregreen background for transmission frequencieslilac background for power levels in watts800MHz band: 4G mobile to start in 2013700MHz band: possible 4G in 2019 more600MHz band: new or moved digital TV services more
Notes: + and - denote 166kHz offset; aerial group are shown as A B C/D E K W
Italics for analogue, digital switchover was Wednesdays 6th July and 20th July 2011.

  • COM7, COM8 projected for 2013-16. COM7 and COM8 to operate as Sudbury, Tacolneston SFN.

Comparison of old analogue and current digital signal levels

Analogue 1-4 250kW
SDN, ARQA, ARQB, com7, com8, BBCA, D3+4, BBCB(-4dB) 100kW
Analogue 5(-7dB) 50kW
Mux 2*(-14.9dB) 8.1kW
Mux B*(-15.2dB) 7.5kW
Mux 1*(-15.5dB) 7kW
Mux A*(-17dB) 5kW
Mux C*(-22.2dB) 1.5kW
Mux D*(-23.6dB) 1.1kW

History of Channel 3 in the Sudbury transmitter area

• Breakfast ◊ Weekends ♦ Friday night and weekends † Weekdays only. Sudbury was not an original Channel 3 VHF 405-line mast: the historical information shown is the details of the company responsible for the transmitter when it began transmitting Channel 3.


Your comments: most recent posts are at the bottom

firstFirst comments prevEarlier comments  ◊  Later commentsnext Latest commentslast

Your comments are always welcome. Please use the form below to add your thoughts or questions to this page. We will get back to you as soon as we can.

Dave Lindsay
Wednesday 18 July 2012 7:55PM
Nick: Negative offset means that the signal is centred 200kHz lower than the "centre" of the channel. A positive offset is 200kHz above the centre of the channel.

For example, C60 is centred on 786.0MHz, C60- is 785.8MHz and C60+ is 786.2MHz.


In all but a handful of cases, PSBs are on channels within the former four-channel analogue Groups for each transmitter. Where possible, COMs are also in Group, but there are now a number of high power transmitters that have COMs outside of their native Groups.

Sudbury's three PSBs are in Group B and its COMs are in C/D.

Tacolneston's PSBs are Group C/D and its COMs are Group B.
Nick
Thursday 19 July 2012 12:17PM Woodbridge
Thanks Dave.
I get from this that C60- is slightly less out of group B aerials than C60.
Does this mean that if they chose, they could put some stations on three frequencies all centred on C60?
I suppose there is some good reason for Tac and Sud not to be able to swap some muxes so as to return to their traditions of groups C and B so that we don't have to buy new aerials.
I am still not certain why you mentioned the minus part of C60. Are you saying it may be harder to receive than if it were not minus?
I am amazed that there is a good signal on C58, but almost zero on C60, particularly on one aerial.
Jason
Friday 20 July 2012 8:05PM
Thanks for the replies and making the situation clear in a manner that i can understand, i had also noticed that the com muxs at Sud were in C/D and those at Tac were in B, was going to ask the same question as Nick as to why they could not be swapped over, but i guess that seams to be the way things have gone during the switch over {nothing was ever going to be simple} doing a bit of reasearch i think I have found six main transmitters that are broadcasting coms out of the transmitters orignal group, think there may probably be some repeaters as well, so we are not the only ones to suffer. And thanks to all that post as it makes this a very informative and helpful site.
Nick g
Sunday 22 July 2012 2:29PM
Since the power has been turned up on all multiplexes my hd signal is now really poor with regular breakup. Why is this?
Please help!

Any help appreciated
jb38
Sunday 22 July 2012 7:31PM
Nick g: This is nearly always caused by the signal received verging on being excessively high, as this situation will affect HD reception even although SD appears to be OK, and although you havent mentioned your location nor anything about your aerial if you are using any type of booster then try by passing it.

Another test to try is by using a set top aerial or a short piece of wire (about 18" min) connected into the aerial socket of your TV / box, but if you come back with your post code or one from nearby (a shop / pub etc) then further advice appropriate to your situation can be given.


Dave Lindsay
Tuesday 24 July 2012 8:30PM
Nick: C60- is still above C59 and C59+ for that matter!

If there is a signal on C60-, then there can't be one on C60 or C59+ or, I believe C59. There could be on C59- though. Each signal has a specific bandwidth; that is the "width" of frequency it uses.

As an example, take Caldbeck. Transmitters that use C30 have a negative offset, so it is always C30-.

Caldbeck uses C22- C23- C24- C25- C26- C27- C28- C29- C30-

So because C30 has a negative offset, then C29 must do so as well, and so on and so forth.

Had there been no C28-, for example, then C27 and below wouldn't have had negative offsets.

The reason for nine channels is because Caldbeck transmits English and Scottish regional variants.
Dave Lindsay
Tuesday 24 July 2012 9:02PM
Nick, Jason: There are many transmitters and only a relatively few channels. Had there only been two transmitters — Sudbury and Tacolneston — then no doubt they would have had all channels within each one's Group.

The main plan was to have PSBs in the same Group as the former four-channel analogue. Crucially this was so as to ensure that existing aerials would work; in some cases replacement aerials would be needed to receive the COMs and in others the COMs would be unavailable.

C61 to C68 which were formerly used for analogue are to be cleared. Some C/D transmitters have given up use of these channels at switchover and others will do so over in the next year or so. These frequencies are being set aside for 4G mobile operators. What it does mean is that there are now less C/D channels available than before.

Also, C31 to C37 have been ringfenced and are not used after switchover. Consequently available Group A channels are now C21 to C30.

Belmont is traditionally Group A. Its PSBs and COM4 are Group A, but the other two COMs are on C53 and C60. Similarly, Sandy Heath is also formerly Group A, with its PSBs being in that Group, but COMs being on C48, C51 and C52. Also consider Waltham which has five muxes in C/D but COM4 on a lowly C29.

These transmitters overlap, so the channels are:

21 Sandy Heath PSB3
22 Belmont PSB1
24 Sandy Heath PSB2
25 Belmont PSB2
27 Sandy Heath PSB1
28 Belmont PSB3
29 Waltham COM4
30 Belmont COM4
42 Tacolneston COM4
45 Tacolneston COM5
48 Sandy Heath COM6
50 Tacolneston COM6
51 Sandy Heath COM4
52 Sandy Heath COM5
53 Belmont COM5
54 Waltham PSB2
55 Tacolneston PSB1
56 Waltham COM5
57 Waltham COM6
58 Waltham PSB3
59 Tacolneston PSB2
60 Belmont COM6
61 Waltham PSB1
62 Tacolneston PSB3

Hopefully you get the idea. Think of the other high power transmitters that overlap these; Sutton Coldfield, Sudbury, Emley Moor.....

Then there are PSB relays within the coverage of each that requires channels within the Group of former analogue ones.
Nick
Wednesday 25 July 2012 9:38AM Woodbridge
Dave, thank you for that.
I am currently trying to work out an aerial that will get me ch 60, far and away the most difficult. If you have any idea what channel will be substituted for it and when, you will save me the bother of installing yet another aerial which may or may not work.
Kevin Hodges
Wednesday 25 July 2012 11:56AM Chelmsford
Nick, for what it's worth I've a wideband 'X' beam aerial in the loft (feeding the TVs via a 4 way amp) and pick up all the Sudbury mux's loud and clear here in sunny Chelmsford. I assume that with the long term proposals to increase the number of mux's all aerials will need to be wideband
RobertB
Wednesday 25 July 2012 12:03PM
Nick I've lived in the Woodbridge area for many years. TV reception has always been a problem in several areas of the town and surrounding area. You will see some aerials pointing towards Sudbury main , some Aldeburgh and others Woodbridge relays. Why not forget Freeview and go for FreeSat? Many more channels good reception. You'd have the expense of a dish and box but should solve reception problems.
Nick
Wednesday 25 July 2012 5:57PM Woodbridge
Thanks Kevin and Robert.
Freesat seems to be the answer, but recorder box is about £250, have the dish.
That Sudbury xmitter is so frustrating, all the muxes except channel 60, Arq A.
I am on the coast, Dover gives a full service, but miss the local stuff.
Dave Lindsay
Wednesday 25 July 2012 9:19PM
Nick: What is the make and model of your receiver?

Am I right that you have said a few weeks back that others in your locality also cannot receive C60, but can pick-up C58 and C56 ?
Dave Lindsay
Wednesday 25 July 2012 9:24PM
jb38: Dover uses C59 and Nick says that it comes in strong. Do you think that the difficulty with Sudbury's C60- could be that it is offset towards Dover's C59 ?
Kevin Hodges
Thursday 26 July 2012 9:08AM Chelmsford
Nick, do you receive Dover whilst having the aerial positioned towards Sudbury? There would appear to be about 90deg difference in the transmitter directions.
Nick
Thursday 26 July 2012 2:13PM Woodbridge
Dave and Kevin,
I have three boxes on three Sudbury aerials. No one box is better than the other and each one works slightly differently, reception-wise, but only because they are on different aerials. If I swap aerials, they are all the same. No aerial gets c60, except occasionally, whilst c58 is usually ok.
I also have an aerial specifically on Dover which I put on the shed to get Dover analogue to play with old tvs when Sudbury ceased analogue. When Dover went digital, I thought I would take it down----but then found it was the only way to get the full digital service!
I think re Sudbury those in authority have much to answer for. When ITV 3 was on 14 kw it was fine, now on a new channel on 100kw it comes and goes.
Having said all that, yesterday I could not even get a picture that would not break up even on c41, from Sudbury, which I put down to the Dutch, who came in with the aerial at 90 degrees to Holland.....Dover...she was fine!
jb38
Thursday 26 July 2012 5:20PM
Dave Lindsay: Yes, that aspect could well be a factor and especially if Dover is as strong as is reported by Nick as it could be desensitizing the tuner, although I cant help but feel that this level of reception from Dover (@ 66miles / 185 degrees) could well be short lived when the seasonal / tidal conditions change, or even maybe even before it!

jb38
Thursday 26 July 2012 5:23PM
Nick: Having just came on a few minutes ago I noticed your latest posting where you mention that you are using three boxes which if connected (in turn) to the same aerial all work about the same, and its this statement that makes me curious as to what brand model numbers they are? the reason I ask is because about 15 different brand names all use the same chassis and likewise all of these brands although different will all perform about the same as each other, and so I just wanted to confirm that this isn't the case with what you are using, as if they were in the multi-brand range that uses a common chassis then obviously for a any reception tests to have any level of validity then the device being used for the reception test would have to be outside of that group.


Nick
Thursday 26 July 2012 6:01PM Woodbridge
Thanks both.
The receiver on Dover is in the shed, aerial on the shed at eaves hight housewise. Tuner is Digital Vision AD BEAV. I have tried it almost daily since Dover went digital, always all channels.
In house, 3 on Sudbury. One a tiny cheapy from Tesco, name not to hand, TVOnics digital tv recorder, and the third Digilogic DSTB1000. All sd only.
Nick
Thursday 26 July 2012 6:05PM Woodbridge
And the three in the house, on very rare occasions, used to get the very weak signal that was on c63!
Nick
Thursday 26 July 2012 6:23PM Woodbridge
Also Icecrypt T5000
jb38
Thursday 26 July 2012 9:34PM
Nick: Thanks for that update on equipment used, and on the basis of the models mentioned I suggest that you use the Icecrypt T5000 for your tests, as the Digilogic DSTB1000 is based on the Goodman's GDB3 (a switch over problem box) and the Tesco device uses an unknown model of early Vestel chassis.

The TVonics is a box made (allegedly!) in the UK but with it being a bit suss as far as exactly where the PCB originates from, as I "suspect" (maybe incorrectly) that it might be from Turkey where Vestel is based, as there is very little technical (service) info published about the box.

However I really do think that you would make things a little easier for yourself if you managed to pick up a Humax box, as all Humax devices are fitted with top class stable & sensitive versatile tuners which are absolutely ideal for carrying out experiments involving reception under difficult conditions such as applicable to your own situation, because if a person does not pick up a signal using a Humax box it can safely be assumed that its because that there isn't one there in the first place, something that cannot be said about every device.
Nick
Friday 27 July 2012 9:06AM Woodbridge
Thanks JB,
By chance it is the Icecrypt I usually test with.
Can you explain, please, why in the past I have managed occasionally to pick up weak stations on c63? I ask because all the boxes seem to struggle with receiving a high power mux on c60. Are you saying that some boxes, whilst receiving the majority of mux channels, cannot cope with all?
Nick
Friday 27 July 2012 12:45PM Woodbridge
This morning the Icecrypt received c60, sig qual 80%, strength 90.
By lunchtime, lost it, sig qual around 30%.
Hey ho.
Dave Lindsay
Friday 27 July 2012 1:26PM
Nick: I wonder if the problem is Dover's C59 which is drowning out Sudbury's C60-. I wonder if there is any experimentation you could do, e.g. by measuring Dover's C59 from your shed aerial at different times and I wonder if when Sudbury reception is worse, Dover's may appear better.

Perhaps a phased array will help:

www.wrightsaerials.tv link icon http://www.wrightsaerials….pdf

www.wrightsaerials.tv link icon Wright's Aerials

A higher gain aerial has a narrower acceptance angle; i.e. one is traded for the other.

Obviously you will need two identical model aerials, but I don't know what sort of gain you will need on each. An array of two aerials will give a narrower acceptance angle than a single aerial (of the same model).

jb38, can you suggest? Perhaps the fact that the 14kW signals came in quite well might be a clue. Two Log 40s maybe?
Dave Lindsay
Friday 27 July 2012 3:17PM
Nick: Further to the above suggestion, I have calculated that you need to set the two aerials 744mm apart from their centres. This gives a spacing of half a wavelength at 345 degrees (clockwise) at 778.0MHz which is C59.

That is, the distance from the point on one aerial to the same point on the other aerial, measured perpendicular to the the direction they face, should be 744mm. It is NOT the distance between the two aerials (which will obviously be less than this).
jb38
Friday 27 July 2012 5:51PM
Dave Lindsay: The answer re: Log 40's is yes, or even DM Logs, although I still have to say that irrespective of what would be nulled out by constructing this type of system, that if the signal that "is" required is being received at totally erratic levels in the first place then I cant see this arrangement making much of a difference, as this type of set up is really intended to be used in an area where signals on the same frequency but received from two sources at reasonably constant levels are clashing with each other, and although there is nothing really wrong with what you suggest I really feel that after a lot of effort it would end up a disappointment for the reasons given.

Of course the other point is that this system requires "absolute" precision as far as alignment is concerned, and this is another thing that cannot be guaranteed where signals are erratic, as they are bound to be suffering from fluctuations in the angle received which would take the precision element away.



jb38
Friday 27 July 2012 5:54PM
Nick: Re: your 09.06am query. Yes, that's exactly it, as in some areas where stations have one or more multiplexes operating with negative offsets on their frequencies there is always a number of older boxes that will perform adversely to this type of situation when coupled to receiving an 8k signal even although they may well have performed OK when used on pre-switchover 2k signals, and even although many of these boxes have been software updated to supposedly overcome this problem its a total hit and miss situation as they can still struggle dependant on the level of the signal being received, this showing up much worse when they are on the weaker side and likewise more difficult to capture in the first place.

That said, the Icecrypt is your only device that is removed from the ranges associated with suffering from these type of problems (as well as others) and with that being why I advised using it for reception tests, which of course you have confirmed that you do!

jb38
Friday 27 July 2012 5:57PM
Nick: By the way, the reply I have just posted was pre-typed during a lunch break earlier on but for various reasons could not send it.
Nick
Friday 27 July 2012 6:16PM Woodbridge
Gentlemen, thank you.
I do not actually want Dover, so I only need one aerial, on Sudbury, provided it works.
Now I will tell you something that will make you think I am barking.
Using the Icecrypt box, with two homemade aerials, this morning, each in turn on the same high pole in the garden the following happened.
Aerial 1 received all muxes pointed at Sudbury.
Aerial 2, which I consider much higher gain, received all but channel 60. I then turned it 90 degrees approx to see if I could get Tac, but left it on the Sudbury muxes, before a retune. I found that I then got ALL Sudbury muxes!
I then put aerial 1 back, pointed the same way, and got nothing, as should have been the case with aerial 2.
For your info, aerial 2 is a tribeam, with the outer two sets of directors designed for group cd and the centre set for group b. The dipole was a compromise between the two, more or less square and based on the old J beam slot aerial Thus each line of directors hits it.
Finally, are you saying that a strong signal, which should not be so coming from Dover on c59 can knock out a Sudbury signal on 60 minus with the aerial pointed at Sudbury?
Nick
Friday 27 July 2012 6:34PM Woodbridge
My tribeam has a balun. The design is based on my very successful Dover aerial, except that the Dover one has three identical sets of directors as all channels used are in/near group cd. The dipole on the Sudbury one is only marginally bigger, in other words, it is still skewed for the higher channels at the expense of 41 and 44.
Nick
Friday 27 July 2012 6:52PM Woodbridge
Before you ask me if there are any trees in the way, there are, in the neighbour's garden, directly in line with.....Dover.
jb38
Friday 27 July 2012 9:14PM
Nick: In reply to your experiments with home made aerials, if No2 aerial received all but Ch60 from Sudbury, then whilst the box was still sitting on Sudbury muxes you turned the aerial around 90 degrees towards Tacolneston and by carrying out that action you then picked up Ch60 thereby making a full compliment of Sudbury channels, then it can only be for one of two reasons.

(1) that Sudbury's signal is being strongly reflected towards you from some large distant object and that is why you are receiving that station when the aerial isn't pointing towards it, or (2) that the directors on the aerial are acting like restrictors and are partially blocking the signal from reaching the active element, "but" with the element of restriction referred to being cleared when the aerial is turned sideways thereby allowing the signal direct access to the active element, the whole point about directors being that they "have" to be precisely aligned "exactly" facing the direction of the signal or they "will" act as partial blockers, this being why I never advocate high gain aerials being used in any situation unless its not too far off line of sight, and also why a Log aerial (any Log but short ones best) coupled with an amplifier of about 12 / 15db or so can receive far more consistent (and reliable) signals over a large piece of metal work.

What I suggest you do though is to leave your No1 aerial set up in operation and do not alter anything, just leaving it running like that to see how long the reception of all muxes holds out for before conditions cause changes to take place.


jb38
Saturday 28 July 2012 1:05PM
Nick: Just a little addition, Re: > I then put aerial (1) back, pointed the same way, and got nothing <, "if" by that you are meaning that when you reconnected No1 aerial into the box again and pointed it in the same direction as was done with the No 2 aerial whereby it received all muxes from Sudbury on by doing this you got nothing, then that would suggest that No1 aerial "is" acting correctly, and that the the second possible reason (re: directors) could be responsible for this strange effect occurring on No 2 aerial, unless that is there was a coax braiding connection problem on the No2 aerial.
Nick
Sunday 29 July 2012 9:14PM Woodbridge
Thank you gentlemen. I finally bit the bullet, got on the roof and put up the tribeam. It got a good signal on all muxes, facing the right way, 95 sig strength and at least 80 quality, although both wavered a bit.
I have resolved to leave it as it is, despite today c60 pixellating with sig quality down as low as 30 at times, oh dear, but think this is the best I am going to get. c60 does not like me, c58 has no such reservations!
Nick
Sunday 29 July 2012 9:23PM Woodbridge
I only have a small problem now for you kindly to resolve. It insists on picking up the ITV 1 mux a second time on c59. I guess it must be Tac. I do not want this as I might find it pixellating because on wrong xmitter, even though it has already logged the Sudbury version.
When I retune the box, I withhold the aerial till I guess I am near c41 to stop it catching the Aldeburgh xmitter. But I cannot withhold the aerial between 58 and 60!
Dave Lindsay
Monday 30 July 2012 11:35AM
Nick: If your box has manual tuning, then the easy answer is to unplug the aerial so as to miss out C59. Then manually add the missing ones, 58, 60 and possibly 56. If it doesn't, then if you have another aerial that picks up all Sudbury's channels — such as that on your shed — then take the box there and tune it in.

I don't quite understand. If aerial 1 works, then why not install it on your roof to provide you with the full complement of channels in your house? If this is so, then it would suggest that it is possible to pick them all up, although as jb38 suggests, it might be worth trying it over a period of time to see if they all hold.
Nick
Monday 30 July 2012 12:54PM Woodbridge
Thanks Dave.
I tried yesterday to put in the whole lot manually, having first deleted, but for some reason got all sorts of odd channels on 1,2, 3, and then BBC 1 etc on the wrong channels.
The shed aerial is on Dover.
I am talking about two different locations. I have been doing my tests at Holleley, which is better situated than Aldeburgh where I installed the tribeam.
Aerial one worked at Hollesley, but would have struggled at Aldeburgh. It is difficult to describe. Imagine a group c/d aerial, old fashioned 18, no balun. The dipole, folded, was doctored so that the bottom half inch widened out into group b. Then remove the two directors nearest the dipole and raise them an inch and replace. Then, an inch below the boom, put in a 7 inch director, then a six and a half, so there are two sets of directors initially, then they merge to take up the remaining 14 which are all 6 ins. Crafty eh?
Norm De Plume
Thursday 2 August 2012 8:16AM
Oh joy, I thought we were done with the retuning, but it looks like there's another retune on the way - Freeview channel numbers change on September 19th 2012 | ukfree.tv - 10 years of independent, free digital TV advice

Is this going to be the last one for a while or is there going to be a whole new tranche of retuning required (what about 4G for instance?)

At least I learned how to back up the other half's recording schedule on our Humax PVR some time ago as a retune deletes the list and it takes HOURS to put them all back manually. However, there must be a lot of other people who will be getting quite angry now.
Nick
Thursday 2 August 2012 6:25PM Woodbridge
Dave or JB,
I think one of you said the projection for channel 60 for me was not good. I do not understand why one channel should have a worse projection than the others from the same transmitter.
jb38
Thursday 2 August 2012 11:28PM
Nick: I cant recall ever having said that nor do I see Dave Lindsay having mentioned it either, as although Ch60 was indeed the subject of discussion I certainly don't see the word "projection" as such having been mentioned.

However on the subject of one channel being received at a very low strength compared to an adjacent channel booming in even although the ERP's of both transmitters are the same, this is just one of these things that can happen with multi-element radiator / multi-channel radiation sources even although they are all from the same mast, as no matter how precise the planning might have been RF signals do not by any means always conform to what's expected (or predicted) and can stray quite considerably from it, likewise there is always an element of pot luck involved should they all be received at roughly similar strengths to each other.

The only clue as to whether this situation may, or may not be applying cases where a signal is being received at a significantly lower level than another that's only one or two channels away, is for tests to be carried out at evenly spaced distances from the mast but on exactly the same angle from it, and if at one of these intermediate distances the channel that's weak at a distance is found to be slighter stronger than the one that was higher at the distance, then that points to a non conformity in the vertical radiation angle and which very little can be done about at the receiving end.

I only mention this for information purposes.
Nick
Friday 3 August 2012 11:18AM Woodbridge
Thanks JB,
I also recall something about the coms putting more stations on one channel than the BBC/ITV ones. Could this have something to do with it?
The trouble I am having seems to be that the signal quality on that channel varies considerably from day to day, 30 up to 90, whereas 58 is constant. Both have regular high signal strength.
jb38
Friday 3 August 2012 9:31PM
Nick: When anyone is experiencing large variations in the quality of a signal being received there aren't really that many measures that they can take that's liable to have much of an effect, basically because that the reason for the problem is in most cases totally out with their control.

However, about the only thing that can be tried and which "sometimes" can improve the situation is to carry out some tests by trying an aerial (Logs perfect for this) in a variety of different positions, and especially so in the horizontal plane rather than the vertical, albeit that the latter does also come into the equation, but usually after a horizontal spot has been found.

Carrying out this sort of test without having the advantage of a professional signal meter on the end of the aerial obviously complicates the issue, but if you don't mind going to a bit of bother you could use the Icecrypts RF modulated output and feed it via a length of coax into some old analogue TV positioned somewhere near to the spot that's being used for aerial tests, obviously tuning the TV to the modulators analogue output.

You then go into the Icecrypts "installation" menu, and in the drop down box seen click on "channel scan", then in the "scan mode" select "by channel" and using the < - > arrows to select Ch60, and if there is any signal there to pick up it should appear in the strength / quality bars, and with that being even although its under the strength that would resolve a picture, so do NOT scan the channel.

You then obviously leave the set up indoors running on that screen and use the TV positioned outside to monitor the results of moving the aerial around, this method if adhered to, capable of giving results nearly as accurate as that obtained when using a professional meter.
Nick
Saturday 4 August 2012 8:27AM Woodbridge
Thanks JB,
That is more or less what I have done, though mostly just turning the aerial slightly. It is on a long pole, and the site is relatively high. The only thing not tried is varying the height, downwards, which I would assume would make things worse.
I don't use a log because I think at this distance its gain would not be sufficient. I realise logs work differently, but nevertheless would also assume that in groups B, and particularly C/D, few of the elements would act as 'directors' with the majority being unnecessary 'reflectors.' Stand to be corrected.
jb38
Saturday 4 August 2012 12:42PM
Nick: Reducing the height of an aerial does not necessarily make things worse and in many cases can improve them, dependant of course on whether or not the signal being received has elements of it being channelled or reflected from distant objects, I fully appreciate though that moving an aerial around in the horizontal plane isn't always a very easy task in the physical sense depending on facilities, but I can assure you that Logs (especially amplified types) are perfect for testing (and reception in general) no matter what distance is involved and in many cases can out perform larger pieces of metalwork of the so called "high gain" variety, mostly of course because of the latter having been installed in situations totally unsuitable for the characteristics of the aerial, and especially when dealing with digital reception where quality is of prime importance rather than strength, meaning things are far more critical than had applied with analogue reception.

And just to reiterate a statement I recall having been made to many in my time, insomuch that its a mistake to look at things in an even remotely black and white preconceived fashion when dealing with reception difficulties and with this being especially so in non line of sight areas, because RF signals do not really conform to any set fashion likewise its always found that no two situations are the same, this being why extensive testing of the nature mentioned is always required for purposes of assessing the situation.

The other point of course being of one not being too influenced by looking at aerial specifications, as an item that might well look grand on paper when used in real life situations will generally perform totally differently, as the original testing was done under strictly controlled conditions and which no longer apply, and I say this as a qualified engineer who has been intensively involved with transmitter, receiver and ancillary equipments for approximately 40 years or so, this also having been my exclusive hobby over the entire time much to the annoyance of my wife.
Geoff
Sunday 5 August 2012 12:01AM Witham
I live in Witham and cannot get any output from COM4 and COM5 (C58 and C60)which means no ITV3 or Dave.
Reception on COM6 (C56))is sketchy, with Film4 breaking up from time to time.
On the PSB muxes I'm getting around 90% signal strength and Very Good signal quality. With a signal booster, COM6 is showing around 50% strength and Poor quality, no signal from the other two. Without the booster, I get nothing from the three COM muxes.
My rooftop aerial is an old one from the analogue days, but should be in line of sight to Sudbury and seems to be correctly aligned and in good condition.
Is this likely to be a bandwidth problem? Were the old analogue aerials in this area Band B, in which case I would need to change to a wideband?
Mark Fletcher
Sunday 5 August 2012 2:13AM Halifax
Geoff,Witham.Yes from what you described you certainly do need to change your yellow tipped group B aerial,co-ax aerial cable and aerial co-ax plug for a brown tipped semi-wideband group E aerial,plus new copper-copper black coloured co-ax aerial cable and importantly new brass co-ax aerial plug.
If you reside in a poor reception area a new Yagi 18E aerial will suffice,or an X-Beam XB16E aerial for extra gain without the need for a signal booster will also be sufficient,more so if you reside in a very poor/marginal signal area within Sudbury.
Dave Lindsay
Sunday 5 August 2012 11:34AM
Geoff: Further to Mark's message, see Sudbury Transmitter
Nick
Sunday 5 August 2012 8:08PM Woodbridge
JB, thanks once again.
I am also wondering the following. For some reason the aerial is pulling in the ITV mux on c59 from Tac, at 90 degrees to Sudbury. This is the only Tac channel I am getting.
Could a signal on c59 disturb a signal on c60 minus?
Further looking at the sig strength AND quality on c60 shows at times that BOTH flash between zero and 90% over a matter of a second or two, but only on certain days.
Nick
Sunday 5 August 2012 8:10PM Woodbridge
Please would anyone on the Sudbury transmitter having problems with the mux on c60 ONLY, ie Pick and Challenge, let me know?
John Chambers
Monday 6 August 2012 11:08AM
Since the retune in June all my channels are working well (in Witham on Sudbury transmitter).
I see in the frequency list in the column headed 2015? another aerial group is shown, does this mean aerials will have to be changed?
Tim CO14
Monday 6 August 2012 11:43PM Walton On The Naze
John Chambers: I think you'll find that the W refers to Wideband. If your aerial, like mine, is an EW (Group E, Wideband), then it 'should' be able to receive channels outside the current range. However, as in many cases, it can be all down to location. Maybe lower frequencies are easier to receive than higher ones? No doubt someone out there can verify this. I'm currently getting all channels at home with no problems.
Nick
Tuesday 7 August 2012 11:28AM Woodbridge
I have been experimenting again, this time really to test a booster, just using an old B group, 9 elements with the reflector fallen off.
After much investigation I find I am getting Clacton. Just wish I could get what I am supposed to, Channel 60, from Sudbury.



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