Full Freeview on the Sutton Coldfield (Birmingham, England) transmitter
Transmitter faults and engineering works
SUTTON COLDFIELD transmitter - Over the next week Sutton Coldfield main transmitter: TV (digital) working normally, Radio (analogue) Possible weak signal, Radio (digital) working normally.
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The symbol shows the location of the Sutton Coldfield (Birmingham, England) transmitter which serves 1,870,000 homes.
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The bright green areas shown where the signal from this transmitter is strong, dark green areas are poorer signals. Those parts shown in yellow may have interference on the same frequency from other masts.
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See terrain plotSutton Coldfield transmitter Freeview broadcasts
If you have any kind of Freeview fault, follow this
Freeview reset procedure first.
Digital television services are broadcast on a multiplexes (or Mux) where many stations occupy a single broadcast frequency, as shown below.
| Mux | Aerial position | Frequency | Height | Mode | Watts |
PSB1
BBCA | horizontal max | C43 (650.0MHz) | 433m | 64QAM 8K 2/3
24.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
| 
1 BBC One West Midlands, 2 BBC Two England, 7 BBC Three, 9 BBC Four, 70 CBBC Channel, 71 CBeebies, 80 BBC News, 81 BBC Parliament, 301 301, plus 12 others 200 BBC Red Button, 700 BBC Radio 1, 701 BBC 1Xtra, 702 BBC Radio 2, 703 BBC Radio 3, 704 BBC Radio 4, 705 BBC Radio 5 Live, 706 BBC Radio 5 Live Sports Extra, 707 BBC 6 Music, 708 BBC Radio 4 Extra, 709 BBC Asian Network, 710 BBC World Service,
|
PSB2
D3+4 | horizontal max | C46 (674.0MHz) | 433m | 64QAM 8K 2/3
24.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
| 
3 ITV (Central (West micro region)), 4 Channel 4 Midlands ads, 5 Channel 5 Part Network ads, 6 ITV 2, 13 Channel 4+1 Midlands ads, 14 More 4, 28 E4, 33 ITV +1 (Central west),
|
PSB3
BBCB | horizontal max | C40+ (626.2MHz) | 433m | 256QAM 32KE 2/3
40.2Mb/s DVB-T2 MPEG4 | 200,000W |
| 
101 BBC One HD (England no regional news), 102 BBC Two HD (England), 103 ITV HD (ITV Central West), 104 Channel 4 HD Midlands ads, plus 1 others 232 The Space,
|
COM4
SDN | horizontal max | C42 (642.0MHz) | 433m | 64QAM 8K 3/4
27.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
| 
10 ITV 3, 20 G.O.L.D. (not free), 25 Dave ja vu, 26 Home (not free), 27 ITV 2 +1, 30 5*, 31 5USA, 34 ESPN UK (not free), 38 Quest, 39 The Zone, 44 Channel 5 +1, 72 CITV, plus 22 others Mail Travel TV, Bluebird 1, ADULT Playboy, 16 QVC, 23 Bid TV, 49 The Jewellery Channel, 170 ADULT Section, 171 Television X, 180 XxXpanded TV, 201 Teletext Hols, 202 Rabbit, 203 Gay Rabbit, 204 1-2-1 Dating, 228 Christian, 229 CONNECT 2, 230 VISION2, 234 CONNECT 4, 235 God TV, 236 Sony SAB TV Asia, 724 Capital FM, 727 Absolute Radio, 728 Heart,
|
COM5
ArqA | horizontal max | C45 (666.0MHz) | 403m | 64QAM 8K 3/4
27.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
| 
11 PICK TV, 12 Dave, 17 Really, 29 E4+1, 32 Movie Mix, 46 Challenge, 48 Food Network, 82 Sky News, 87 Community Channel, plus 9 others 36 Create and Craft, 37 Price Drop TV, 43 Gems TV 1, 173 ADULT smileTV3, 175 ADULT PARTY, 176 ADULT Blue, 177 Babestation Xtra, 206 SkyText, 723 talkSPORT,
|
COM6
ArqB | horizontal max | C39+ (618.2MHz) | 433m | 64QAM 8K 3/4
27.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG2 | 200,000W |
| 
15 Film 4, 18 4Music, 19 Yesterday, 21 VIVA, 24 ITV 4, 41 Sky Sports 1 (not free), 42 Sky Sports 2 (not free), 47 4seven, 83 Al Jazeera English, 85 RT English , plus 21 others Kerrang!, 22 Ideal World, 35 QVC Beauty, 40 Rocks and Co 1, 55 Argos TV, 172 ADULT smileTV2, 174 Babestation, 199 ADULT Section, 225 VISION, 226 CCTV, 227 Sports, 231 Racing TV , 306 Channel Zero, 711 The Hits radio, 712 Smash Hits!, 713 Kiss, 714 heat, 715 Magic, 716 Q, 718 Smooth radio, 725 Premier Radio,
|
Regional news from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter
Self-help relays
| Burton (shobnall) | Transposer | 1 km W Burton-on-Trent | 60 homes |
| Coalville | Transposer | 18 km NW Leicester | 600 homes |
| Solihull | Transposer | Land Rover building | 400 homes |
How the transmission frequencies change over time
| years | 1950s~85 | 1984-97 | 1997-98 | 1998-2011 | 2011-13 | 2013-18 | 2013-18 | |
| aerial group | VHF | B E | B E | E | B E K | B E K | W | |
| C4 | BBCtv | | | | | | | |
| 600 | C33 | | | | | | | com7 | |
| C35 | | | | | | | com8 | |
| C39 | | | | | +ArqB | +ArqB | +ArqB | |
| C40 | | BBC2 | BBC2 | BBC2 | +BBCB | +BBCB | +BBCB | |
| C41 | | | | +1 | | | | |
| C42 | | | | | SDN | SDN | SDN | |
| C43 | | ITV | ITV | ITV | BBCA | BBCA | BBCA | |
| C44 | | | | +2 | | | | |
| C45 | | | | | ArqA | ArqA | ArqA | |
| C46 | | BBC1 | BBC1 | BBC1 | D3+4 | D3+4 | D3+4 | |
| C47 | | | | +A | | | | |
| 700 | C50 | | C4 | C4 | C4 | | | | |
| C51 | | | | +B | | | local | |
| C52 | | | | +C | | | | |
| C55 | | | | D | | | | |
| orange background for multiplexes names more | green background for transmission frequencies | lilac background for power levels in watts | 800MHz band: 4G mobile to start in 2013 | 700MHz band: possible 4G in 2019 more | 600MHz band: new or moved digital TV services more |
Notes:
+ and
- denote 166kHz offset; aerial group are shown as
A B C/D E K WItalics for
analogue, digital switchover was Wednesdays 7th September and 21st September 2011.
- Ofcom have projected that a local television service for Birmingham including Greater Birmingham area, part of Wolverhampton, Walsall, Dudley could use an Interleaved Frequency on the Sutton Coldfield transmitter using C51
- COM7, COM8 projected for 2013-16. COM7 and COM8 to operate as Bromsgrove,Sutton Coldfield, The Wrekin SFN.
Comparison of old analogue and current digital signal levels
| Analogue 1-4 | 1000kW | |
| SDN, ARQA, ARQB, com7, com8, BBCA, D3+4, BBCB | (-7dB) 200kW | |
| Mux 1*, Mux 2*, Mux A*, Mux B*, Mux C*, Mux D* | (-21dB) 8kW | |
History of Channel 3 in the Sutton Coldfield transmitter area
• Breakfast ◊ Weekends ♦ Friday night and weekends † Weekdays only. Sutton Coldfield was not an original Channel 3 VHF 405-line mast: the historical information shown is the details of the company responsible for the transmitter when it began transmitting Channel 3.
Your comments: most recent posts are at the bottom
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Your comments are always welcome. Please use the form below to add your thoughts or questions to this page. We will get back to you as soon as we can.
Terry likes cactiiSaturday 18 August 2012 7:48PM
@Kim & @Sam, as above, we have had a poor signal for probably two weeks or so. Actually, thinking about it, last night I gave up with TV and put the radio on.
@Sam, we had a similar problem many years ago, we checked for local interferrence for 2 miles and there was no consitent identifiable source.
It was interesting how you could state the times the channels would stop and start.
Sorry, not much help, but at least you know others have had the same problem.
Terry likes cactiiSaturday 18 August 2012 7:51PM
Today COM4 SDN in north Coventry is almost non existent. All 5 other banks of channels are working okay.
ITV (the broadcaster in central Birmingham) says ."... there is no problem with the transmitter as they are watching it with out problem, and no one has reported a problem.", dispite my neigbour having reported it!
They also said there had been no signal problems in the past few weeks, otherwise they would have been inundated with calls.".
The ITV 'boss' on duty suggestion is "get your areal testd and fixed on Monday or local interference", he is an idiot! Two houses, different aerials, same problem, same time, so NOT aerial fault!
Question -
Are there different 'transmission aerials' at Sutton Coldfield for transmissions going to 'central Birmingham' and the transmisions going to 'north Coventry' ?
Thanks
MartinSunday 23 September 2012 11:54PM
Poor reception from Sutton for over a week, I've started to watch everything via broadband, freeview a poor poor serviceRich BoothWednesday 10 October 2012 10:21PM
Stafford Living in Stafford, I think we're pointed at Sutton Coldfield, Aerial in the roof and using a aeriel booster.
Just changed my PVR from a Humax 9200 to a Humax HDR Fox-T2. Working fine except for the COM4 SDN multiplex (Channel 41 ?) which is very flakey indeed. Never had this problem with the old Hummy. Is it likely to be different tolerances on the tuner ? I know we should probably pay to put the aerial outside but i could do without the expense.... any thoughts ?jb38Wednesday 10 October 2012 11:16PM
Rich Booth: Sutton Coldfields SDN transmitter operates on Mux Ch42, Ch41 is from The Wrekin and which is indicated as providing an inferior level of reception.
If you carry out a retune and this happens again then you might have to carry out a Manual tune on each of the muxes one at a time to overcome this problem, the mux channels used by Sutton Coldfield being /
43)BBC) - 46(ITV) - 40(HD) - 42(ITV3) - 45(Pick TV etc) - 39(Yesterday etc).jb38Wednesday 10 October 2012 11:22PM
Rich Booth: I notice that for some reason the latter mux was cut off, it being 39 (Film 4 / Yesterday etc).Rich BoothWednesday 10 October 2012 11:59PM
Oldbury jb38: Ive just done another auto retune and all seems to be fine now !!jb38Thursday 11 October 2012 11:55PM
Geoff: Either reset your TV by carrying out a factory reset (sometimes called default setting or position ) or remove the aerial and then carry out an auto-tune as this will blank out the tuners memory store, then once complete reconnect the aerial and go into your TV or boxes tuning menu / manual tune and enter the mux channels one at a time as shown in the link, storing same once scan is complete.
Ch62(BBC) - Ch59(ITV) - Ch54(HD if used) - Ch58(10-ITV3 etc) - Ch61(ArqA / 11-Pick TV / 82-Sky news) - Ch55(ArqB / 15-Film4 / 19-Yesterday).BRIANSaturday 13 October 2012 4:11PM
You state above that 1956 saw the inception of this transmitter, but in fact BBC TV was first broadcast just before Christmas in 1949. I remember as a very small boy seeing the first night of it on a 15" HMV set with a figured walnut cabinet and doors at the house of the very wealthy parents of a schoolfriend in Higher Bebington, Wirral, not far from today's Storeton transmitter... we were all spellbound, and went outside to look at the aerial to see if it might be glowing!clancyFriday 19 October 2012 11:28AM
aerial in loft..cannot get any channels when i re-tune today 19th oct...helpChris.SETuesday 23 October 2012 5:55AM
clancy: If you still have a problem, please provide your postcode.Chris.SETuesday 23 October 2012 6:03AM
BRIAN: The information provided by Briantist is from when it began ITV transmissions as stated, not the previous history.
However, that's still an interesting story of yours.Chris.SE: of course it was nearby Lichfield that did VHF IBA broadcasts... Carmen VassalloThursday 13 December 2012 10:47AM
Birmingham I keep getting told online/postcode checks that my transmitter should be the Sutton Coldfield one. However, I no long pick this up. The transmitter that I pick up when I retune is called West Midlands.
Also, for many years, ever since Freview came out, I had no problem receiving every single Freview channel on all my TVs connected to my outside aerial, on my roof. However, several weeks ago, I suddenly lost several channels. I have retuned several times but this does not fix the problem.KMJ,DerbyThursday 13 December 2012 12:18PM
Carmen Vassallo: The transmitter identification now refers to a region or area rather than an individual transmitter. This is because relay stations show the same information as the parent transmitter, which could be confusing to those unaware that they were not receiving the main station directly. It also helps with selecting the choice of region on those receivers that offer a choice, the receiver then selects (with luck) the strongest signal/best quality from those available for the chosen region. Sutton Coldfield is therefore a West Midlands option. If the channels were lost as a result of doing a retune it could be that old data was retained, in which case doing a factory reset prior to retuning should restore the full list. Otherwise the problem could be too strong a signal on affected mux(es) or single frequency interference blocking reception on affected frequencies.gbhallFriday 14 December 2012 1:19PM
Carmen,
cold weather may affect your reception on one or two muxes due to interference caused by a distant transmitter using the same channels (see inversion effect).
But losing many or all channels is also likely to be water entering the outside aerial connector or wiring. Only a good installer can help you with that.
x: See "How the transmission frequencies change over time" above. This mast stopped being group B in 1998. guyThursday 3 January 2013 8:13PM
Mike: hi, using a humax pvr9300t i can get all channels except hd. they should be on frequency uhf40 but the system says no channels available from west midlands transmitter. any ideas. thanks. post code DY69BJ. we are not on wrekin like it says is the option.MichaelThursday 3 January 2013 8:46PM
guy: A quick google of your humax's model number tells me it's not a Freeview HD receiver so it obviously won't pick up anything on UHF channel 40 :)guy: It doesn't have a Freeview HD (DVB-T2) tuner in which is why it won't pick it up! VickSunday 13 January 2013 1:43AM
Birmingham I have been receiving all the Freeview channels previous. On 12/01/2013 I had few signal problems and when I re-scanned several times I've lost all the channels now. I've tried resetting to factory setting but it still doesn't work. I'm living in an apartment, so I'm not sure whether there's a problem with the ariel. My postcode is B5 4TH.VickSunday 13 January 2013 10:20AM
Birmingham I've got back all the channels. There is still some signal problems. It might be due to the weather.bored nowTuesday 29 January 2013 2:13PM
appaling reception on 5* (30) and pick (11) for 2 weeks or more now
random quality all over the place on a number of channels
signal levels dont seem affected
nothing to do with weather I watched
no snow wind or rain att and its all over the place again today
bored nowSaturday 2 February 2013 3:27PM
Birmingham B34 6TW
Some change since previous post:
Signal quality on MUX39 now 10% Power 25%
All other muxes between 35% and 46% power all quality at 100%
Alternate cable run tried (we have it permanent plumbed in now) and other household box tried with very similar readings (Humax PVR's)
Attempt to use an amp raising power to 60-70% on all muxes keeps quality at 100% but quality on mux 39 (618Mhz)
causes power to go to 50% and quality zero
(Suggesting very poor xmit quality of signal in first place)
Same symptoms using rooftop, loft, and indoor RLPA-(amplified) aerials (i.e. no better signal from outside than indoor - perhaps 1-2% flickering at a pinch)
No issues at all over xmas - and of course olympics were perfect on every channel. must be coincidence .... once again.
SidSunday 3 February 2013 11:02AM
Worcester I think they have been messing around with the power levels since sometime in January on ch39 & ch40 from Sutton in the Midlands. Wenvo in South Wales has moved one of its multiplexes to 39+ in between Suttons ch39 & ch40.
Both these transmitters are high power main ones for their respective regions.
Most of Suttons power is directed southerly to cover Birmingham/West Midlands and down into Worcestershire and Wenvo has a lot of its power pointed north.NickFriday 8 February 2013 12:47PM
Halesowen Me too. Channel 39 all over the place. Intensity average 75% all the time but quality dips from 80% to 1%. All other Muxes are 95% on both intensity and signel. Even got up on a ladder to reposition aerail but no change ?NickFriday 8 February 2013 5:34PM
Halesowen Nick: hmmm increased mast height by 1 metre, Signal not 100% but now all channels returned. Channel 39 still not brilliant but at least its there. White knuckles from adding to my pole off a ladder though :-oWattTuesday 26 March 2013 6:01PM
Warwick I have a strange problem! I'm on the edge of the Sutton Coldfield coverage area (CV35) but have what seems to be a perfectly good signal from a Group B aerial on the chimney and a distribution amplifier.
One of the amp outputs feeds a Humax HDR-FOX-T2 PRV with a Philips flat screen HD-Ready TV daisy chained off it.
For the last 4 months or so, I have been getting picture freezes and breakups while watching the TV via the Humax (connected by HDMI) and when recording stuff on the Humax. This can affect all channels but is mainly on channels from the COM5 and COM6 muxes. When this happens, the Humax reports an adequate signal strength, but dire signal quality. However, if I switch to the TV's tuner and watch the same channels on that, the picture is perfectly ok - and the Philips reports that the qulaity is "excellent"!
I assumed that this must indicate a problem with the Humax. However, I've just had that replaced and the problem is still there - worse if anything!
Where do I go from here?ian from nottsThursday 28 March 2013 8:10AM
Nottingham Watt- do the recorder and the tv show the signals as being on the same frequency ?
the humax may find and store a rogue signal from a different transmitter, resulting in poor qualityWattThursday 28 March 2013 4:30PM
Warwick Yes, both the TV and the Humax are manually tuned to SC's 6 muxes, so it's a like for like comparison. The worst problems are with the COM6 mux (UHF channel 39+, 618.2 MHz on both). There are also problems on COM5 (Ch 45, 666MHz) but the ones in between are largely ok. [I first did an auto tune with no aerial connected, to clear out any spurious stuff, so neither has any 'duplicates' in the 800's.]
I've been trying to think whether I could have done anything to cause the problem. Not long before I started having problems, I installed a power-line ethernet link to connect the Humax to my broadband router. I wondered whether that could be injecting noise into the Humax and affecting that but not the TV. But I've now totally disconnected that, and the problem hasn't gone away! I don't know what to try next.jb38Thursday 28 March 2013 9:05PM
Watt: With regards to the problem mentioned, purely for purposes of elimination I would be interested to know the outcome of a couple of tests, albeit that by rights no changes should be noticed if all is in order.
The first is to leave the Humax on its signal condition screen and note if any changes are evident when you remove the daisy chain RF connection from the Humax into the TV.
If not, then try moving the HDMI cable around that links the box into the TV whilst closely observing if any changes are seen in the signal quality whilst doing so.
I did note you mention that both TV and Humax are tuned to the same two muxes, as other than that I would have been inclined to be thinking along the same lines as ian from notts insomuch that the Humax might possibly be tuned to another transmitter, Lark Stoke being the most likely as the predictor does indicate fractionally better reception of ArqA Ch44 / ArqB Ch47 from that transmitter, but though if you have double checked that both are on the same mux channel numbers then that has to be discounted.
The aspect I find rather puzzling being, that although the tuners used in Philips TV's are generally very good (although model dependant) Humax tuners also come into that category but with no qualification such as that made regarding the Philips, and with this being why I find what you are reporting to be a bit unusual.
WattThursday 28 March 2013 10:55PM
Warwick Many thanks for your suggestions jb38. I'll try them in the daytime tomorrow - which is when the problem tends to occur. It's usually ok at this time (~10pm)of night.
Lark Stoke is in an almost diametrically opposite direction to Sutton Coldfield, and is vertically polarised. Having said that, when I first retuned my TV following DSO (before I bought the Humax) I did pick up some watchable Lark Stoke transmissions off the back of the aerial! I then took to manual tuning, and have always tuned the Humax manually. I surely shouldn't be getting interference from Lark Stoke? It doesn't use any of the same channels as Sutton Coldfield. My most problematic mux is COM6 (39+) and Lark Stoke's nearest to that is its COM4 (41+).
About 25% of my neighbours have their aerials pointing at LS, the rest at SC. In extremis, I could replace the aerial and use LS instead. It might be a better bet in some ways because, although it isn't as powerful as SC, there are less hills in the way. [We're in the shadow of Hatton Hill, with a straight line from SC to my aerial barely clearing the ground in some places]. But that begs the question as to why the Philips TV copes ok but the Humax doesn't! [It's a fairly old (by TV standards) Philips TV - circa 2006. Don't know whether that's good or bad as far as tuner quality goes!]jb38Friday 29 March 2013 12:31AM
Watt: Yes, as everything you have mentioned regarding Lark Stoke etc is quite correct as far as picking it up on the rear of your aerial is concerned, albeit with it not only being 40 degrees out but also on the wrong polarity.
But though its the content in the latter paragraph of your reply that I also find to be puzzling because it should simply not happen where a Humax device is involved, but the fact that it does is inclined to indicate the existence of some type of oddball problem, this being why I requested that you try these tests whilst the Humax was effectively isolated in the RF sense from the TV, i.e:- no daisy chain link.
The other point I forgot to mention being to make sure that the antenna power supply is switched off on the Humax, this achieved via the installation menu. ian from nottsFriday 29 March 2013 8:09AM
Nottingham Watt- do you have other devices sat on or near your humax ? if so you could try putting the humax in the open (as such).
also a lot of coax behind the tv unit may cause problems ? if they are sat on power cables ?
the humax tuner could be accepting the faults more than the tv does, as jb38 said both names are known for reliabillity though ?WattFriday 29 March 2013 12:19PM
Warwick Antenna power is definitely OFF, and always has been. There is not a lot of co-ax behind the TV. There is a single cable all the way from the distribution amp, which is chased into the wall and emerges from an outlet with its innards removed, and goes straight to the Humax with no intermediate socket or fly-lead.
I have removed the RF lead between Humax and TV with no effect on the signal quality bar. Ditto with waggling the HDMI lead.
The TV (with its own stand) sits on a 3-shelf TV unit, with the bottom shelf about 3" from the floor and the other shelves about 9" apart. The Humax has always sat immediatly on top of a DVD player on the middle shelf, so as to be about 12" under the TV. The DVD player is invariably OFF when not in use - although I suppose by that, I mean that it's on standby, and is receiving SOME power, because it can be woken up by its remore control.
Anyway, in case this is having any effect, I've now moved the Humax - on its own - onto the bottom shelf, so that there is now about 20" of clearance from the bottom of the TV. That MAY have made a BIT of difference - but certainly hasn't effected a total cure. The quality bar on Ch39 is still 'tromboning' but only seems to be going between 100% and about 70% rather than down to 50% or lower before. But it would take a longer period of observation to be sure, because the problem tends to come and go. There is still SOME evidence of picture break-up. jb38Friday 29 March 2013 8:16PM
Watt : Now that having moved the position of the box has "seemingly" (as its not been positively proven) somewhat improved the situation then the variation in signal quality that you report on Ch39 is something that I would not consider as being that terribly unusual in situations such as yours, and where the signal path from the transmitter is known to be sweeping over ground at a relatively low angle such as applies with reception from the Sutton Coldfield transmitter whereas not with signals being received from Lark Stoke.
Checks made on the terrain indicator reveals that the secondary aspect of signal from Sutton C starts being affected from roughly 7 miles away, but though much more so within the last 4 miles of your location, this immediately making it vulnerable to suffer from the effects of the terrain that its passing over such as from trees or other forms of vegetation, this being the thing that introduces the aspect of erratic quality to the signal because of data corruption, plus of course coupled to an indication that the signal being received will most likely be susceptible to seasonal changes of the terrain.
The other point that should be noted being, that signal indications displayed on Humax boxes are nearer in reality of what might be observed on a professional signal meter (albeit these being in db's) than that displayed on most TV's which are inclined to give indications that are far higher than the true level, the problem there being that a quality indication of say 100% on a TV might well still be erratic but hidden by the fact of the indication being somewhat embroidered, whereby a full scale indication does not necessarily always represent the entire signal whereas it does on a Humax, this being why a more accurate assessment of a situation can generally be made when using signal reports taken from a Humax box in preference to that from other devices.
That said though, there just had to something amiss with your set up when you reported the Humax as indicating dire quality whereas excellent on the Philips, still a report on observations made over the next few days would be interesting.
By the way, is your TV an LCD (LED illumination) or Plasma type?
SidFriday 29 March 2013 8:17PM
Ch39 breaking up and very poor signal here in Worcester today but back to normal in late afternoon.
WattFriday 29 March 2013 9:21PM
Warwick jb38: Based on further observation, I would say that my previous report of some improvement was somewhat premature and that, in reality, moving the Humax further away from the TV hasn't made any difference.
The TV is an 37" LCD model which we bought new in about 2006 - but I have a feeling that it was probably a discontinued model at the time. [I'm not sure that plasma TVs were avaialable at the time].
I understand what you're saying about the respective built-in quality reporting mechanisms. But, aside from that, the proof of the pudding is in the eating! The Humax's picture breaks up, the TV's doesn't.
I also realise that having the signal skimming along the ground doesn't help. [Prior to DSO, digital TV was very unreliable, so I didn't buy a PVR until after DSO]. But that still begs the question as to why the TV is ok but the Humax isn't.
I also find it slightly odd that the two muxes which play up are not at the extremes of the frequency range. Well, actually, COM6 on 39+ is the lowest of the 6 muxes, but well within the range of a Group B aerial, (and Channel 5 analog used to work per4fectly well on Ch 37). COM5 on 45 is flanked by PSB1 on 43 and PSB2 on 46 - both of which are ok.
That makes me wonder whether there's something inherently inferior about the signal quality on the COM muxes relative to the PSBs.
jb38Saturday 30 March 2013 5:21PM
Watt: Well I did have my doubts as to whether or not the improvement found by moving the box was just purely coincidental hence why I mentioned "seemingly", although it does have to be admitted that many flat screen TV's are guilty of emitting quite high levels of "low frequency" RF interference which can in some cases interfere with signals carried in HDMI cables etc and so what ian from notts suggested is a valid point.
On the subject of the Humax suffering from picture beak up whereas the TV on the same channel doesn't, obviously that is something which cannot be disputed irrespective of how alien this might seem to myself or anyone else with knowledge of Humax boxes and their performance, and of course it cant be down to a rogue box by you having said that this is a replacement, although I remain highly suspicious as to the reason for this and feel that some other as yet undiscovered factor is involved, although this could soon be verified or not by the box being given "exactly" the same comparison test (between TV and box on same muxes) but on another installation, as its about the only way of verifying one way or the other as to the exact reason for this apparent anomaly.
Of course, not unless unbeknown to myself Humax have started fitting alternative tuners to that normally used and which are possibly of somewhat less sensitivity than the originals, I might check up on that! although I would appreciate if you could inform me as to the model number of your Philips TV for the similar purpose of checking up on its particular tuner.
I would like to reiterate though, that the main reason for my interest in what you had reported was purely concerning the issue of the signal breaking up on the Humax but not on the Philips, because apart from the fact that in situations such as yours (low signal path etc) reception difficulties are almost inevitable to occur at certain times of the year its also quite common for muxes "not" to be received at the same (or even near to) level as each other for reasons other than that connected to the aerial being used, simply because that no matter how carefully things are planned in the design stages RF signals do not beam out from the mast in exactly the same way, as well as the fact that even if they did, then they can still be received at differing levels connected to the terrain that the signals are passing over.
ian from nottsSunday 31 March 2013 8:46AM
Nottingham Watt- have you tried by-passing the humax and going direct to tv ? just to see if the tv is ok or takes up the fault itself ?
some recorders do boost the signal through themselves when feeding the tv ?
can you check signal/ quality lavels on the tv when you do this?
also do you know what strength the distributter is ?WattSunday 31 March 2013 11:32AM
Warwick jb38: Many thanks for your continued interest. The TV is a Philips 37PFL5522D/05
Looking at Lark Stoke vs Sutton Coldfield, I'm loath to move to LS because - according to my calculations - the signal strength which I'm likely to receive (1,260 watts at 23.3 kM vs 200kW at 38.4 kM) would be lower by a factor of 60! Also, we seem to be line for some additional HD muxes from SC in a year or two, but I'm not sure when - if ever - LS will carry those.
I suppose that I could hedge my bets by investing in a Group K aerial, which should work for either.
Ian: I've just tried what you suggested. When I plug the downlead directly into the TV, the picture is fine and it reports "excellent" quality on the same channels which are poor, with picture breakup, on the Humax.
I would have been surprised if the Humax provided a better signal to the TV than it used for its own purposes - added to which, "quality" implies signal to noise ratio rather than just signal level. It looks to me as if the Humax is seeing some noise which the TV isn't seeing!
The distribution amp is a Wickes CM7297 (probably made by Labgear) which I've had since Adam was a lad. It claims to have a gain of 6dB on each of its 6 outlet ports.jb38Sunday 31 March 2013 2:17PM
Watt: Thanks for the update, but just a little query regarding the signal passing through the Humax and which I am not quite sure about the answer.
If you view the TV whilst its aerial is being looped through the Humax is this when reception on the TV is poor? because if it is then have you tried using another jumper lead between both? because the signal from the aerial passing though the Humax should not really be that much different (if at all) to when its connected directly into the TV, maybe you could clarify on that point.
Secondly, although you may have already done this, but go into the Humax's power management settings and make sure that the "power saving on standby" is switched off, because if not that kills the aerial loop though facility when the Humax is sitting on standby.
On the subject of the power levels between Lark Stoke a Sutton Coldfield, although a massive difference does exist between the two it has to be looked at in another way, insomuch that the signal from Lark Stoke (@ 14 mls) is relatively line of sight as well as being nearly 10 miles closer than Sutton C at nearly 24 miles away, but with the signal path from it travelling close to the ground in the latter stages of its travel.
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