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Over the past year or so two almost forgotten pieces of equipment have re-emerged in the installation trade... Stacker/ De-Stacker equipment and brown Coaxial Cable, brown cable i'm not so worried. DIY and even Professional Installers seem to be fitting Stacker/ De-Stacker units in ever increasing numbers most believe they "Can shove two cables down one".
Whilst that is the principal of the system their are great benefits to such a system and there is great pitfalls. The invention of the Sky plus box brought extra challenges such as an additional cable run from dish to box, some people don't have the luxury of getting in another cable run. Possibilities they've built an extension to their home or the the most common they've moved into a flat with a communal aerial/ satellite system.
Two stories - Mr DIY has moved into his nice new flat and discovered he's one satellite cable, he's want Sky HD and Sky refuse the install as they normally do. He hatches a plan to buy a stacker/ destacker the cost of which is 70 quid hooks it up as per what he's read on the internet and it never works.
Mr Fitter attends a job in a block of flats discovering he can't easily get another cable in or the multiswitch has no spare output. He goes about setting up a stacker/ destacker unit and discovers it won't work either.
Technical bit - A Stacker/ De-Stacker unit is a brilliant piece of kit if used right... Nine times out of 10 it is either botched or used with inferior cable. Cable type is the most important piece of equipment in the system, cheap poor coaxial cable known as RG6/ 60 is often high loss over distance and has the impedance of a sponge cake. CT/ TX100 or 125 is far superior because it's double shielded and suffers much lower loss. RG6 type cable tends to have a rating of about 1ghz, CT100 has a rating of about 3ghz. The job of the stacker is to use additional bandwidth to combine two satellite feeds, it does this by using a higher stretch of the band and effectively stretch's out's the other feed on a higher frequency, a lower grade of cable with a poorer rating can't cope with the job of performing this. The de-stacker pulls the two frequencies back down and separates them into two separate feeds ready for decoding at the set top box.
Factors that play apart are cable length - The cable run much be longer than 7 metres to account for impedance and to regulate for the insertion loss.
Cable Loss Calculation:
Loss per metre at frequency “X” = loss per metre of a known frequency x the square root of (frequency “X” divided by known frequency)
CT100 type cable has a typical loss of .21dB per metre at 1000 MHz. Therefore, at 3850Mhz the loss would be .41 dB per metre.
RG6 type cable has a typical loss of .22dB per metre at 1000 MHz.Therefore, at 3850 MHz the loss would be .43 dB per metre.
To conclude if this type of installation is to be used insure if you're using a multiswitch that it has a spare port - the amount of times i've seen two taped together. Ensure the multiswitch does not have a dc block function as the stacker itself requires a 9v power supply. Ensure you're using the correct cable and the correct length of cable. You cannot cut corners with there types of installations...
I have had two stackers in place for many years one johanson one global, I use the both to add a 39e feed to a 28.2e feed both have worked perfectly for years (my house is wired with ct100 ) totally agree about cable type, I tried to help a developer out who had "lost" a cable but unfortuantly his spark had used rg6, and there was no way it would work with rg6. We allways tell people to use ct100 / h109 if the cables are to be sealed inside walls but they dont allways listen !
A funny yet distressing story... I got a call from the wife of a DIY enthusiast who's talents had no bounds! They had both recently moved into a lovely new apartment served with an IRS system communal aerial and dish. He soon realised after bringing along his SkyHD PVR there was only one satellite feed, undeterred began searching the internet and spent £84 on a stacker/ de-stacker and bought a reel of sh1te cable, it was camera twin power and coax cable because "It was on offer at Maplin's"...
He found the riser containing the head end and discovered the cable for his apartment (As it was clearly labelled by us previously) There were no extra outputs on this V5 multiswitch but he hatched a plan and began wiring is about the nicest word i can use, he snipped his only satellite feed and took the two cables from the stacker and taped the three cables together, plonked the other cable into the stacker and hey presto... Fitted the de-stacker and the psu and surprisingly cabled the in-room part quite well i then began to get suspicious. I asked if an installer was involved he said "No" to proud to admit he had help his wife told me he got an "off duty Sky fitter" round after his work but he couldn't get it to work and gave up.
My phone began to ring off the hook one morning most of the residents apart from the top floor had no telly or satellite. Mr DIY went surfing on the internet and discovered the power was being blocked and switched off the dc power at the head end thus rendering 8 floors useless... After some clean up and repair work on our part we helped him get the system working.
There's a morale in this story somewhere but all i will say the internet can sometimes be a dangerous thing in the wrong hands!
"There's a morale in this story somewhere but all i will say the internet can sometimes be a dangerous thing in the wrong hands!"
As can the English language, I think that you mean moral "A moral (from Latin morālis) is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event", morale "an intangible term used for the capacity of people to maintain belief in an institution or a goal"
So, I'll leave the aerial fitting to you if you promise not to use words that you don't understand.
SeaBee: As a general rule, this site isn't about grammar. There are plenty of site for them, and I'm sure they wouldn't wish for people to post satellite-dish related stories there.
I think you need to check again mate before you start the grammer lessons, I cant see anything in my post that relates to the post that you have addressed to me, please enlighten me as im a bit baffled by it. I know my spelling & grammer are not the best but I cant figure out the point you are trying to make.
I'll have to give up technical authoring and retake an English GCSE... I'd be more impressed if Seabee had of asked a question or perhaps wanted to learn some information with regards to the subject this site caters for... But no we're arguing over the illusive use of the letter "e". I feel guilt ridden for perpetrating such a crime, some people in this world need to catch a grip of themselves... I hope my grammar was up to your high standards!
Yes, this isn't the place for grammar but I'll have my say in defence of Mark. First, though, let me have a poke at Seabee. "Moral/e" both come, via different routes and an English reversal of their meanings in French, from "moralis". Seabee must be an educated chap, because he writes the "a" with a macron, a little line over the top. This is familiar and of interest only to linguists, which makes me think he's a bit of a pedant, delighting in the opportunities mistakes provide for him to demonstrate his knowledge.
There are actually more opportunities for him in Jordy's article, but my reaction when I read Jordy or Mark or most of the posters here is that I would like to have 10% of the technical knowledge and skill they have.
I am a linguist and taught for many years. If Jordy's purpose in writing this had been (certainly in "the old days") to answer an exam question, he probably wouldn't have made some of the mistakes in the first place or would have revised the answer and corrected them. If he had handed the revision to me, I would first have highlighted any remaining errors, some of which he may then have corrected.
For me, the most interesting point is why someone with the intelligence to acquire Jordy's level of technical knowledge and skill didn't acquire the same level in English. I don't think I could ever have attained the level of technical ability he probably had on leaving school, but all the evidence is that his intellect would have allowed him and many others to acquire a similar level of ability in English. The gap doesn't occur in all educational systems, and there is constant worry about why it happens here.
Anyway, thanks to Jordy and Brian and everyone who has the technical knowledge and the ability to explain it in comprehensible English and, especially, who is willing to give time to passing it on freely to others.
I've used PF100 coax cable on my installation,which copper double screened & semi-flexible(also 1mm inner conductor)satellite cable,& works areat,available from screwfix.work out @ approx. 57p a metre.I've also used a mains powered distribution unit which combines d.a.b. radio & t.v signals,which is then split in each room(4 outlets)using wall mounted diplexer,works a treat.
Richard Gagen Tuesday 6 September 2011 8:47PM Birmingham
Hi folks. Stacker-destacker has a bad reputation as regards "Not Working". However, several things can effect its operation. 1.Cable type as previously mentioned. 2. Any outlet sockets between the two units. 3. Poor 22K tone from sat receiver. This was common, and also effected certain multiswitches some years ago. It has recently has become a problem again, but with a different make of Sat receiver.
Hope this is of help, as the stacker unit is a usefull item.
I'm trying to find the best way to add Sky+ to a communal syetem, and I hope I can get some definative answers from you guys, as so far I have 2 opposing views!
I live in a development of 43 homes in a hertiage area. Planning restrictions limit us to a single communal system - 1 Sat Dish, 1 omni directional FM, 1 wideband UHF pointed at the Wrekin. These go through a distribution system split across 3 physical locations on the development. There are 5 Inputs (TV&FM combined, 4 sat - HH, HL, VH. VL) which go via Philips -22db taps into two philips SW1 7512E distribution switches and then on via a single cable to individual homes with splitter plates in the properties. Also from the tap the 5 feeds go to the next physical location with an amp & one SW1 7512E, and to the third location with a n amp (philips AMP9853) with a SW17508 switch. We want to add a sky+ service across the whole of the installation and 2 years ago were recomended stacker/destackers at a cost of about £6k - with the whole installation needing to be done at once. Recently, we have been told that SCR's will do the job and can be installed on a one-by-one basis - which is ideal as rather than pay for this out of communal funds, we can charge everyone for the work as and when they have it done, as many people don't want Sky at all! I asked the installers who did the original system (who also recomended stsckers 2 years ago) and while they like th enew SCRs they still think all the kit needs swapping out at one time. Phew!! Any one have real experience with SCRs and how they work in this type of configuration??? I can supply photos of the install if anyone is interested! Thanks folks!
Mark. this is where it gets confusing! (by the way, this is all stuff I've been told, I'm not a pro in this area so forgive any gaffs etc) The original SCRs only worked with PACE receivers, and have been discontinued. There now seems to be a new design which has taken a while for Sky certification/ approval and was made available recently (last month or so??). This is supposed to be compatible with all Sky plus boxes. Can't recall the manufacturer's name but I have it somewhere if you need it! I have 2 installers saying they will work, but one says it can be done 1 at a time incorprating existing switches & hardware, the other that everything needs to be done at once and the switches etc changed out. So I'm not sure who (if anyone) is right...
Hi Wutty
The job needs to be surveyed properly before advise of this nature can be given, and me for one would need to see whats been installed todate, stackers/destackers work very well when all things are installed correctly and the equipment is within the specifications required.
As mark stated cable quality is a number one problem and always has been with DIYs and spark contractors, I will guarantee to you if you ask any of the above two categories what grade cable they used on a particular job the reply will be satellite grade cable, must of here that a million times, its such a loose term, its like someone asking what grade cable did you use to wire your house with and me answering ooooo mains cable the stuff that grey.
I personally only ever use TX100LSF its all that carried in the van wether its terestrial or satellite installations.
Far as the big jobs with multiple buildings i will only ever use fiber optics these days, then coaxal on the final drops.
Most of it is stright forward if you do your homework when planning in the first place, after all its the equipment that does the work at the end of the day all it needs is to be installed and set up correctly
Regards