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If you can get a Freeview signal to your box or TV from more than one transmitter, you will get extra channels.
Published on by Brian Butterworth on UK Free TV The old analogue TV signals provided lots of nations and regions for the public service channels, and these have large areas of overlap. Places like Yeovil, Basingstoke, Colwyn Bay, King's Lynn, York and Berwick could choose the BBC and ITV services they watched.
The old low power digital TV signals were at very low levels and reception of signals from more than one transmitter was a rare event.
All Freeview boxes automatically scan the available broadcast frequencies looking for channels, and they do this from C21 to C69. Whilst scanning, if a duplicate version of a channel is found, such as another BBC Oneregion, they are placed in the 800-899 channel range.
The 800-899 is easy to access by pressing CH- from 1, and in most programme guides is just a single scroll up.
The transmitters in Wales also put Channel 4 on "logical channel number" 8, because the fourth position is reserved for S4/C.
Quite a few people that use the Winter Hill or Mendip transmitters (or one of the relay transmitter) will probably find that they will now have:
OPTION 1: Live with it. If the signals are strong enough you get a few extra channels (S4/C has English subtitles). There are techniques for sorting out the channel numbers below, but any future automatic scan will restore the channels to the order you now find them in.
OPTION 2: You can clear the all of the channels from the box and manually scan for the multiplex from only one transmitter. For the details, see the transmitter pages
OPTION 3: If the Freeview box has no "manual add" option, the only technique left is to pull out the aerial, start the automatic scan and insert the aerial just before the lowest channel number appears. For example, Winter Hill this is C54.
Some Freeview boxes will show a "percentage complete" as they scan, under this scheme C21 is "0%", C22 is "2%", C42 is "42%", C54 is about "66%".
Even if you manual scan, many boxes will scan during the night for new channels and may still add channels in the 800-899 range.
I have a 28 element group A aerial aimed at CP, but am suffering from unwanted signals from SH. The angle between CP and SH is 112 deg at my location. Do you know of any way of shielding my aerial from these emissions, or indeed any way of mitigating the problem ?
Colin Wray: As you are getting this problem at not too far away from an aerials least sensitive position, that of side on at 90 degrees from its direction of pick up, then there isnt really much chance of any normal aerial achieving what you want, although a grid or a log periodic (suitable shielded) might be slightly better in this respect.
Of course another aspect has to be taken into account, that of Crystal Palace being 38 miles away and operating on a 10Kw low power multiplex on Ch31, whereas Sandy is only 22 miles away with its Mux Ch31 operating on 20Kw.
As you can see both these things are against you, although if the TX powers at each end were reversed that would have been beneficial to you, but of course they aren't!
This being said taking it that you are referring to the Mux channel 31 problem.
Yes, I was referring to the channel 31 problem, although I am also missing Mux C and Mux D. I have looked at the signal strength of every channel with only one of my two aerials connected, so I am sure Mux D absence is not due to OX C29. The absence of Mux C cannot even be blamed on digital overlap, I cannot get either from OX or CP individually.
Thanks for the links !! I have now made a chart of all the channels and changes which seems to show that most if not all conflicts will be resolved on 28th Sep 2011, so I will keep ny fingers crossed until then.
Is anyone else having problems with STVHD? I have an Humax HDR Fox T2 and a couple of weeks ago there was problem with lip sync on this channel but only lasted one night.
This has now been 'replaced' by a really annoying 'flicker' which looks like someone is using a camera flash! It can happen from every minute to every 5 minutes which is soooo distracting!
It is the only channel which is affected so cannot be connections or the telly etc.
Along with this I am having real problems tuning in the Mux containing STV, Channel 4 and 5 etc. An autoscan results in lots of extra channel and using Manual search results them in all being grouped together under channel 0.
My transmitter is Rumster Forest.
I've only had the PVR for about three weeks and everything was fine until a week ago.
Liz Falconer: You should carry out a signal check on Mux Ch21 (the HD channel) to check if the quality of the signal you are receiving is reasonably stable, or if its diving up or down, which up to a point could be outwith your control albeit you are only 13 miles away from the transmitter.
I realise you have already carried out an auto-tune, but its always best blanking anything stored in the memory out before auto-tuning, this done by carrying out the first scan without the aerial being connected, then after re-connecting scan as would normally be done.
jb38: I have checked the signal quality on Mux Ch21 and it is at a steady 100% with signal strength of 80%.
I have carried out a factory re-set and when I do this I get loads of extra 800 channels so had to do another manual search and all the channels tuned in no problem with the exception of the Mux Ch24 which are all grouped under Channel 0.
I can't understand why the 'flickering' problem is only appearing on STVHD. Have I posted in the wrong section re this?
Liz Falconer: As regards to lots of extra channels in the 800 ranges, you shouldn't really have had that result if you blanked out the channels already stored, as the only other station that its possible for you to receive on a much less reliable basis is Keelylang Hill @ 35 miles away, although I would discount that as a possibility even although its indicated as such on the trade predictor. There shouldn't really be any problems with receiving Mux Ch24 either, as STV North / Ch4 / Ch5 etc are all on that multiplex.
I suggest you try carrying out a scan "without" the aerial connected, as this "will" blank the channels stored out, then re-connect the aerial and make another auto-tune scan and see what comes up.
The reason I asked you to try a factory re-set was in case anything had been corrupted whilst you were carrying out the original tuning, as I noticed that you have had some seriously bad reception problems in the past, and tuning whilst reception is erratic can cause various difficulties to spring up at a later point in time.
Another thing that concerns me is you saying that its only STVHD that's affected, so does that mean other HD channels are OK? as if they are then it could indicate either a box fault or alternatively one at the transmitter, albeit I haven't seen any complaints as yet, but will certainly make further checks elsewhere.
jb38: I only get the 800 channels if I carry out an auto tune. When I do a manual search I get the channels at the correct signal quality but they are not in the correct order and all grouped together under Channel O.
I forgot to say that when it starts tuning it shows 10 channels as being found but at the end it shows 20 although there are only 10 listed.
I will certainly try carrying out a scan without the aerial connected as you suggest. Think I'll leave it until Monday as need a rest!
A message did come up during the scan to say that multiple channels had been found and to confirm that the area I live in is the North of Scotland. I thought it should be Highlands and Islands?
Re the flickering it is only STVHD which is affected. All the other HD and SD channels are fine.
jb38: I forgot to say that my reception problems have been sorted with a new aerial and coax cable. The signal quality is now a consistent 100% and signal strength is between 75% and 80%
Liz Falconer: Thanks for the update, and pleased to hear everything is OK now, although I have to surmise that STVHD must be your main viewing channel and that is why it was noticed there, as if whats been done has rectified the problem then all HD channels must have been affected as they are all from the same transmitter.
Liz Falconer: Your best policy by far is to try and make local enquires with anyone else in your area who can view HD transmissions to find out if they have noticed any problem with STV HD, if not then its likely to point to a fault with your box, as you have effectively tried all the procedures thats possible for a user to try.
I havent as yet found anyone else making a similar complaint to yourself regarding the Rumster Forrest transmitter, either on this site or another that I use, although with your area being quite small its not necessarily the case that complaints would be made via the web but possibly more to a local TV shop etc.
Liz Falconer: I've had similar problems with a Humax HDR Fox T2 down here in The Midlands. Following switchover last week, my auto tune did exactly the same as yours. It told me there were multiple transmitters, but only gave me a choice of one. I then had umpteen '800' channels as well as the correct channels. Switching from SD to HD even went to the wrong HD channel.
Rightly or wrongly, I put it down to bugs in the HDR's firmware, and I doubt that any amount of factory resetting or scanning aerial-less would change a thing.
I didn't bother with manual tuning. I just deleted the '800' channels (you can select them and delete them all in one go). I was left with the proper list of channels, with their correct names and numbers, and all was well. Easy really.
Regarding the flicker on STV HD, this could be nothing to do with the reception. I think it is more likely to be an issue with the HDR not talking to your TV properly (for lots of possible reasons). My advice would be to check you have the latest firmware from Humax's web site, as they have fixed lots of bugs, including some with the HDMI interface.
HDMI is well-known for compatibility problems, especially with older TVs. My HDR wouldn't work at all with my Samsung TV until I upgraded the HDR firmware. Could you borrow a TV (or a PC monitor) of a different make to yours and see if you still get the problem? Your TV itself might even need a firmware upgrade.
Finally, just changing the V-FORMAT from 1080i to 1080p or 720p (or whatever) might be sufficient.
I don't want to offend jb38 or anyone else here, as this really is a great site, but sometimes a different kind of expertise is required. If my suggestions don't help, you might find that someone on the Humax forums can sort you out.
Mark Fletcher Monday 26 September 2011 10:59PM Halifax
Another potential regional overlap issue which may crop up in September 2012,is the Bilsdale main transmitter becoming all digital 1 year from now today,Wednesday 26 September 2012 to be precise.The Bilsdale mast covers much of North Yorkshire and also parts of West,South and East Yorkshire too,and where i reside at present in Halifax,HX2 9JY postcode,there is an outside possibility that come DSO three of Bilsdale's mux's BBCA,BBCB (HD),D3+4 on 100kw maximum power could be received in my locality,maybe yes/no in relation to their 50kw maximum powered SDN,ArqA,ArqB mux's.The reason i am bringing this issue up is because a few miles away over the hill in Bradford,some households in particular the south and west of that city,have horizontally polarised external aerials pointing towards Bilsdale,thus receiving BBC1 North East & Cumbria,as well as ITV1 Tyne-Tees regional programming/adverts.
I can't find anyone in my area who has STVHD. I did post on local forum but haven't had a reply.
Benny I don't get the channels in their proper place at all so just deleting the extra 800 channels won't work.
I do have the latest firmware on my PVR and all the other channels are working perfectly so can't be the television.
My tv is a Panasonic and not that old.
Benny London: No, I am not in the least offended! as what you have said is quite valid regarding HDMI difficulties when used with certain types of equipment, the reason though that I didn't bring that issue into the equation was because of the problem being on a single channel, as HDMI compatibility problems don't in the general run of things single out a particular channel to cause a problem on.
There in again, when dealing with digital signals all sorts of odd problems can strike!
Liz Falconer: I think you should have a look in the phone book for a TV shop located in Wick and give them a tinkle to enquire if they have heard of any problem with STVHD from the Rumster Forrest transmitter, as this point really needs to be verified, because if its definitely not a fault at the transmitter then it has to be the boxes, because good as Humax boxes may well be, and I have three, they are not without their faults.
Okay this is getting weird!
I was watching STVHD and there was no flicker and then noticed the STV logo has gone!!!
Still can't tune into Mux Channel 24 but wonder whether this is connected since it contains STV?
I am trying to find out about the Rumster Foresttransmitter.
I'll just be happy if the flickering stays away! :)
Liz Falconer: Digital TV has a very complex set of standards which allow for a multitude of variations in formats. Consequently, there can be all manner of differences between TV channels, differences between programmes on the same channel, and even differences during an individual programme as it goes in and out of commercial breaks. Often, transmitted streams don't even comply with the standard. HD streams have the additional hassle of copy protection, which is a whole can of worms in itself.
Generally, boxes cope pretty well with the many complex tasks they have to do, but occasionally certain channels will not work on certain boxes. Such is the nature of digital TV.
It's likely there is something specific to the STV HD stream which is tripping up your equipment, and this can occur anywhere in the path from tuner to screen.
I can't obviously analyse the transport stream from this far away(!!) but I'd be astonished if the streams for the individual HD channels were all formatted identically. Or that the data streams presented to the TV had identical formats for every channel.
If I were in your position, I would definitely want to try the Hummy with a different telly. It's a matter of eliminating possibilities and trying to pin the problem down to a specific piece of equipment. (BTW I assume you have HDMI directly from Hummy to Panny. You're not going via an amplifier are you?)
Regarding your tuning problem... You could try attenuating the RF signal while you auto-retune (a lead with only 1 wire connected might do). The idea is to get the signal from the aerial so weak that the Humax can only just about pick up the contents tables from the desired transmitter but won't detect any other transmitters. Afterwards, you can put the normal lead back again.
Don't forget to unplug the Hummy before you fiddle with the aerial connection. That warning notice on the cover is there for a reason!
Benny: Well the flickering has stopped on STVHD so I am really hoping it stays away.
I do wonder whether they have been working on this channel as the STV HD was visible during part one of a programme, visible in part two and missing again in part three!
Yes the HDMi is direct to the telly and not via an amp.
To be honest I don't really feel like moving the hummy to another telly as I have a back problem.
I do have all the channels tuned in correctly apart from Mux Channel 24. I might indeed try the attenuator as you suggest. Thanks!
Well I've just found out that the flickering on STVHD was a broadcast fault which has now been sorted! Would have been nice if they'd told their viewers!
I still can't get Mux Channel 24 to tune in properly but think I will wait until this weird weather ends before trying again in case this is interfering with the signals.
Liz Falconer: Thanks for the update, the content of somewhat confirming my earlier mentioned suspicion of your problem being caused by a broadcast fault, albeit still with the lesser possibility of a problem existing with the Humax.
Anyway, as far as Mux Ch24 is concerned, I would like you to blank out anything stored using the scan without the aerial procedure, then manually tune in Mux Ch24 "only", as the box only having that channel stored is a better way to test things, giving an update once done as far as the signal strength / quality is concerned.
Thanks Mike for your reply (2 Nov). Most of the time I have perfect reception, 10 on the signal "quality". However during the poor reception periods the level goes to zero. The main BBC channels are not affected.
I thought you may have some idea if they were still working on individual multiplexes
Yes I do receive Wrekin signals quite strong, I can see the Wrekin but I prefer to use the Sutton transmiter direct
Brian Thwaites Saturday 26 November 2011 2:19PM Chelmsford
very usefu service.......thanks a lit.
Have discovered the BBC and a few others in the 800 region but channel 12 (yesterday) has disappeared...please is it still on air or not available on Sudbury???
Brian Thwaites: The programme you refer to is still there but is transmitting from Sudbury on a very low powered multiplex until mid next year, and is something that is a cause of great annoyance for many people as there isn't really any technical tricks that can be used to get around the problem without grossly overloading your receiver from the stations main high power multiplexes, these radiating at 100Kw compared to the 1.1Kw Mux that Yesterday / Ideal World / Film 4 / ITV4 etc, is on.
By the way, the BBC1 etc channels you refer to up in the 800 ranges are just duplicates picked up from other transmitters, and its assumed that you are just mentioning this in the passing and not that they are better than the BBC1 in the EPG1 position , as if this is the case then carry out a factory re-set followed by an auto-tune. (wont help Yesterday etc though!)
some of the freeview channels like yesterday and film4 do not seem to be available in our area of north norfolk is this correct.my postcode is nr270ea.
geoff: It depends on which transmitter you have your aerial directed to.
If it is West Runton (272degrees, aerial mounted vertically) then it is correct, you will not get the commercial channels.
If your aerial is horizontal, then you will probably be on either Tacolneston or Belmont which do broadcast these channels, although the latter transmitter's power of them is lower than the Public Service Broadcaster (PSB) channels (BBC/ITV/C4/C5) which will lessen your chances.
prior to a re tune ,i could get bbc s/east anglia & meridian,after auto re tune i can
get bbc london and not my local news i have re tuned manualy but no local news,i have a luxor dtv hd,any help please.
paul sheen: What happens when you manually tune depends on the design of the device. What you hoped it would do is replace the incorrect main channels with those of your desired transmitter.
However, if the multiplexes from the desired transmitter have already been stored in the receiver's memory (usually put in the 800s), manual tuning may just do nothing because as far as the receiver is concerned, the channels are already tuned.
I assume that the London broadcasts that you are picking up are from Crystal Palace which switched over to digital on Wednesday. These are all on frequencies within the first 30% of the scan. If the Anglia transmitter you are intending to use is Sudbury, then its channels are higher up, so if you run the scan with the aerial unplugged for the first 30%, your receiver won't get the opportunity to "see" the signals from Crystal Palace.
05:31
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