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High pressure causing reception problems

High pressure is forecast until Feb 20th , which causes the Inversion Effect, with loft aerial Freeview often effected on 64QAM mode multiplexes.

High pressure is forecast until Feb 20th , which causes the Inv
Published on by on UK Free TV
High pressure is www.bbc.co.uk link icon forecast until at least February 20th, which causes www.ukfree.tv link icon the Inversion Effect, with www.ukfree.tv link icon loft aerial Freeview often effected on www.ukfree.tv link icon 64QAM mode multiplexes.





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Mark
Wednesday 13 February 2008 1:13PM
Yep...I've lost about half my channels...Mux1 (England), and whichever Mux is on ch. 67 (Mendip) are being lost to incoming signals from Huntshaw Cross.

I'm assuming that this is why News 24 (UHF 30) is shaky right now....although, having said that, normally, when this happens, you can tell by pointing the analogue tuner at the UHF number in question, and you'll see a picture where you would usually see nothing.

But, on UHF 30, nothing...just fuzz...not even a trace of a picture....I've never known that before...the signal strength is fine...

There appears to be nothing in range of me on UHF 30, eithor, even with inversion effect..
Briantist
Wednesday 13 February 2008 2:14PM
Mark: You probably need to get a properly mounted roof aerial.
Mark
Wednesday 13 February 2008 7:14PM
I already have a roof mounted antenna, wideband, gain (I think) 12.5db.

I'm in Swansea & recieve from Mendip/Wenvoe.

I'm lucky in that most of what comes through when there's high pressure is on different channels to most of what I have tuned in.

Even though Huntshaw Cross is closer to me than Mendip, there is a tall building directly in the way, and can usually only get a very weak signal when I point straight at it...but, under high pressure comes in enough to block digital signals from Mendip.

I'm still curious as to what's occasionally blocking UHF 30 (Wenvoe), as I cannot find anything on UHF 30.

I'm getting the following extra channels...

Huntshaw Cross 55, 59, 62, 65, 67
??? (West Region) 66, 68 (BBC2 & Ch. 4)
??? (English, but, not West (Different adverts to HTV West)) 21, 24, 27, 31
French (I assume as it's got that 'negative photo effect' on the picture 39, 42, 45

Also co-channel interference on the unused Kilvey Hill channels, but, I get that anyway....
Briantist
Thursday 14 February 2008 7:02PM
Mark: Can you tell me your postcode please?
Mark
Friday 15 February 2008 12:18AM Swansea
Sure...it's sa2 0px.
Geoff. Dixon
Friday 15 February 2008 11:30AM
Mark: The trouble is that there are so many Transmitters interacting at your location and co channel interference could be very high quite apart from line of sight problems and atmospheric and weather variations.

To summarise:-
Kilvey Hill 4 Km @ 76 Deg (True) ‘A’ Vertical - 383 watts incr to 2000w 30/03/2010

Carmel 23 Km @ 347 Deg (True) ‘C/D’ Horez. – 2416 watts incr to 15000w 30/09/2009

Huntshaw Cross 72 Km @189 Deg (True) ‘C/D’ Horez – 4000watts incr to 15000w 30/07/2009

Presley 59 Km @ 310 Deg (True) 1 Group? & Polarity? 333watts incr to 15000w 30/08/2009

I don't feel qualified enough to put my neck on the line and be dogmatic, so you will have to wait for a reply from 'Briantist',but it seems to me that you should go for the strongest signal after switchover.In any event I think you will need a Class 1 very directional single group aerial (NOT WIDEBAND).
Mark
Friday 15 February 2008 11:58AM
Under normal circumstances, there are 4 transmitters I can get with quality if I swing my aerial round. These are Mendip (which I'm pointing at), Wenvoe (only 5 degrees out from Mendip), Porlock (surprisingly as it's on such low power) and Kilvey Hill.

Caradon Hill (which I used to point at pre-digital) is blocked by Kilvey Hill, the signals are very weak from Huntshaw Cross (huge building in the way) and Carmel (hill in the way causes serious ghosting), and I get nothing at all from Presley.

I also want to continue to recieve the English services. Here in Wales the BBC seems to want to show minority interest stuff at peak times (you would almost think that they were doing it delibarately to generate complaints) or sport (which is of no interest to me) at peak times.

The only drawback is that under a large high pressure, I am prone to co-channel interferance, mainly Huntshaw Cross blocking out my digital from Mendip. I'm still curious as to what was blocking UHF 30, as there wasn't even a trace of a picture (if a MUX is being blocked, you usually see a picture on analogue on the same frequency) & I couldn't find anything else on UHF 30 anywhere near me.

Post-switchover, yes, I may well need an aerial upgrade. The way the frequencies have been allocated is a mess, which, under high pressure will even affect people pointing at nearby Kilvey Hill.

I'm hoping I can pick up Mendip (I'm *just* above the digital cliff now, so, signal strength won't be a problem), failing that, Porlock is my only option.

If I can't get eithor, I'm switching to BBC/ITV Freesat.
Briantist
Friday 15 February 2008 1:28PM
Mark: The interference could be analogue, or it could be digital. See www.ukfree.tv link icon UK TV Frequency map - channel C30 (546MHz) | ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 for details of the possible. You will probably find a bigger aerial (with more elements) gets you a stable signal. Because after switchover there may be new TV services that will be "out of group", you are advised to get a wideband aerial, as grouped aerial are to fix an analogue problem.
MickF
Friday 15 February 2008 7:18PM Witham
I get freeview from Sudbury via a good roof-mounted antenna. In the past day or so the signal strength on the "ITV" channels has dropped markedly to the extent that a re-tune results in the loss of them altogether. The "BBC" channels remain at the same reported signal level so I believe that my installation hasn't changed. Has anything happened to the transmit signal quality or power from Sudbury in the past few days?
Mark
Friday 15 February 2008 8:33PM
THanks, Briantist. The Freeview predictor in the first link bears absolutely no resemblance to what I can get here (Mendip & Wenvoe). It is only under (large areas of) high pressure I have problems...

I already have a wideband, but, may have to get a super-directional class 1 type to pick up Mendip post switchover...

It didn't occur to me that a low powered digital signal could reach me pre-Switchover, but, if there's one in East Devon (not far off where I'm pointing), that's probobly it...
Briantist
Monday 18 February 2008 7:16AM
Mark: I can't really comment as you don't seem to have use our predictor. www.ukfree.tv link icon Find out how to receive Freeview | ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Mark
Monday 18 February 2008 6:34PM Swansea
Just tried it, and it gave the same result as the link you sent me. It really is way out. As already said, under normal circumstances, I get fine reception anyway, just the high pressure messes it up.

Also found out yesterday that one of the sets of channels I am picking up (21, 24, 27, 31) is South region (Rowridge?), which surprised me a little....
manuela
Monday 18 February 2008 10:00PM Redditch
For the last 24 hours, I have had no Freeview reception whatsoever, with very poor analogue signals, particularly BBC1. I have a fairly new digital roof aerial. My post code area would normally be tuned into Sutton Coldfield, but being on the wrong side of a hill necessitates tuning south-east into Stratford? / Hereford? My Freeview box just comes up with "no channels available" when re-tuned. However, my new tv has an independent digital tuner, so I'm currently watching a dutch tv channel! At lunchtime, it was german tv all the way... So how come British tv signal cannot cope with good weather? When analogue is turned off, will we just have days at a time without signal? And will we get a refund on the licence fee? :-)
Brian Hogg
Monday 18 February 2008 10:27PM Alfreton
I have been having reception for some time at DE55 4TQ pointing to the waltham transmitter. I used to get a good signal even though I sometimes had to retune. Tonight (18-02-08) I can only get BBC channels everything else has no signal. Any ideas? I have done a retune of all channels 3 times but still no signal. I have a roof mounted wide gain aerial that was fitted a year ago. The analogue channels and all connections are fine. I have even tried a signal booster but that makes no difference.
Barry Plumridge
Monday 18 February 2008 11:05PM
About six weeks ago I had a high gain aerial installed, with a masthead amplifier feeding five T.V's. I live (for my sins) in Harlow, Essex. My aerial is pointed towards the Sandy transmitter as the signal is better than that received from Crystal Palace.

For the past three days I have had intermittent loss of signal - it started with Channel Five, then all the other channels fail, either severally or individually. The picture becomes pixelated and starts to freeze, then the screen goes blank except for an error message saying "channel not tuned". This can happen for anything from a few seconds to several minutes, then everything comes back on perfectly.

Any ideas anyone?

Gerald Connolly
Tuesday 19 February 2008 7:07AM
I live near High Wycombe with a freeview via a loft aerial that has been working fine over the last year, but last night (Mon 18th) about 22:00ish we were watching numbrs and ranes and the picture suddenly broke up very badly for several minutes, it then went back to normal for several minutes and then bad again, BBC seemed OKish, this morning before 07:00 still the same, viryually no ITV channels have any picture, i was really trying to watch channel 10. Its thick fog this morning although it wasnt last night.

Its 07:03 now and its working fine.
Briantist
Tuesday 19 February 2008 7:09AM
Brian Hogg/Barry Plumridge: Please read the article above. www.ukfree.tv link icon What is the Inversion Effect and why does it effect my Freeview TV reception?
| ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
causes severe reception problems because the Freeview signals are on very low power and use the "gaps" that were left in the analogue plan because the Inversion Effect causes problems for analogue reception. In some places the interference is impossible to resolve until the networks are change to high-power digital-only COFDM transmissions. However, many people have substandard installations (loft and indoor aerials).
Gerald Connolly
Tuesday 19 February 2008 7:24AM Princes Risborough
Briantist,

I understand what you are saying but we havent had these problems in the last year and i am sure we have had high pressure over that time, its just the times that look suspect, 10 at night to 7 in the morning, sounds more like a problem at the transmitter than the weather.

G
Briantist
Tuesday 19 February 2008 10:06AM
Gerald Connolly: I'm sorry, but it is NOT a problem with the transmitter, but with YOUR reception equipment not being installed with poor reception condition in mind. I am sure you would find it much more productive to stop finding other people to blame and to get your own equipment sorted out!
Peter Clark
Tuesday 19 February 2008 10:18AM Sawbridgeworth
I too live near Harlow/ Crystal Palace transmitter area and have had unusually poor reception over the last few evenings and early mornings, losing ITV 2 and ITV 3 despite a good, professionally installed set up.

If its not the transmitter it is that the power/format is inadequate. Why should I have to put up with flaky reception in the 21st century?
Briantist
Tuesday 19 February 2008 10:48AM
Peter Clark: Because the current digital transmissions use the "buffer" frequencies left between the analogue transmtters to stop the Inversion Effect causing problems during periods of high pressure. Once the analogue services are turned off and the networks are high-power digital networks only, the problem will be resolved. Sorry, but it's the old analogue technology that is causing the problem. www.ukfree.tv link icon What is the Inversion Effect and why does it effect my Freeview TV reception?
| ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
- take a look at www.ukfree.tv link icon UK TV Frequency map - channel C31 (554MHz) | ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 for example and you can see that when the analogue signals bleed due to inversion they go right into the Freeview areas that would otherwise have no problems.
Peter Searle
Tuesday 19 February 2008 12:32PM Alford
Firstly,let me state that my outside wideband high gain aerial has been checked by a local installer and been passed as "fit for purpose".
I receive my signals from Belmont and in recent months I have had bad to godawful reception but ONLY on ITV/Ch4/E4 and their +1 channels.As I sit here and check my signal quality/strength all other channels are indicating FULL strength and the above mentioned have none or virtually no signal which I don't think is coincidental. I suggest to Briantist that it is probably the frequency band that the bad stations use that is the problem and not necessarily equipment fault.
terry
Tuesday 19 February 2008 2:26PM
I have a relatively new roof arial and a sky dish.when watching sky the picure keeps freezing,flip channels and it un-freezes for a while...
change from sky to normal tv and the quality of picture is very poor except for ch.5.
I am tuned to the wrekin transmitter and until recently everything was fine...
Briantist
Tuesday 19 February 2008 5:14PM
terry: The problems are probably unrelated - I cannot say more without your full postcode.
Darren
Tuesday 19 February 2008 7:40PM Derby
I live at DE21 2SY and pointing at the WALTHAM transmitter. For the past 3-4 days most of my channels have gone 'No Signal' Only BBC1 / BBC News 24 are ok - I have 4 x Digital TVs (Various quality of units) and they ALL experience the same problem. Is this due to the weather? The Digital Ariel was fitted in Dec 2007 (by a trained engineer / professional company) and all TVs worked fine with 100% signal strength. Don't tell me it my equp "Briantist" - cos it isnt! Any reasonable explanations anyone?
John
Tuesday 19 February 2008 8:24PM
I live at DE217GR and have a very expensive aerial mounted atop a large mast with an amplifier aligned to Waltham installed nearly a year ago by a reputable company. Have experienced loss of reception from around 1900 yesterday and 1940 today.Lost all stations yesterday and all but BBC up to now today. Because this has happened previously and, as then, I missed recording an important (to me) program am about to revert to the less desirable but more reliable Sutton Coldfield Tx,fortunately I still have my original rooftop OnDigital Antenna for this.
Paddy
Tuesday 19 February 2008 8:45PM Alfreton
Darren/John. You are the same person.
Your style of writing - and postcode- is too similar with many of these posts across the page. To probably its down to the weather.
Tony
Tuesday 19 February 2008 8:52PM
Second attempt at posting, sorry if it duplicates.

I have the same problem with Waltham, I loose all channels except those on mux 1 when the weather is poor visibility such as snow or fog.

It gets worse from about 6pm in the evening but returns by the following morning.

It has to be a fault/configuration issues with the transmitter. The rest of the time I get reasonable reception.

Looking at other pages on this site shows the power rating for the QAM64 mode to be low. Is this the cause, can anything be done to sort it or do I have to wait another 3 years before I can get a reliable signal?

Can you complain and if so who to please?
Ross
Tuesday 19 February 2008 8:53PM Nottingham
I have experienced the same problem as the last two posters -

I am at NG6 8RR, but I'm in a block of apartments with a shared antenna so I've no way of knowing which transmitter the aerial is pointing at, especially as neither my freeview box or TV will tell me. It could be Waltham, Nottingham or Sutton Coldfield.

I suspect it's a loft aerial but it's pretty new as it's a new build development.

The signal on all MUXes except 1 (so BBC channels remain) have been disappearing around 1800-1900 the last two nights for the whole night. They seem fine during the day.

Thanks for any advice.
Darren
Tuesday 19 February 2008 9:00PM Derby
Er hello! Darren and John ARE NOT the same person thank you! Maybe there is a problem and people are trying to find out the solution or cause. Try not to jump to conclusions pls!
Ian
Tuesday 19 February 2008 9:09PM Derby
Maybe 'Paddy' thinks Darren, Tony, John and Ross are all the same people .... and there are no problems at all ! oh please ...... LOL !!
Paddy
Tuesday 19 February 2008 9:52PM Alfreton
The map link for Darren/Ian goes to the same postcode. Some shoddy work if you have multiple aliases...

Both Ian and darren have the same flag and also both have used "name here".

Coincidence me thinks not...

Regardless, the high pressure has gone now but the bad signal remains. What's going on??
Briantist
Wednesday 20 February 2008 1:17PM
Just getting back to the substance... the Inversion Effect, which is an atmospheric mirror for UHF TV signals is a terrible blight on those effected. It came as a great surprise to the engineers when they moved from VHF 405-line TV to the colour, UHF TV system to find interference coming from behind the horizon. Before this, it had been assumed that such signals were 'impossible'.
It is for this reason that we had to implement aerial groups, and to leave massive gaps between transmitters using the same transmission channel. This is the reason that there have only ever been five analogue TV services, and even that took quite some times.
When the original DTT (digital terrestrial television) services were introduced, they utilised these "buffer" unused frequencies for the digital services. For this reason, they are currently at stupidly low power. However, this has two upshots. Firstly, there will be people with 100% properly done 100% maintained aerial installations who will get nothing whilst the atmospherics exist. This is where an 'impossible' analogue signal leaks over. The second effect is that people can suddenly receive Freeview from hundreds of miles away. One person posted they got a signal from the London Crystal Palace transmitter in South Wales!!!
Is this a fault of digital? No. The problem is resolved with fully digital transmission. But, until 2013 or so when the UK and the neighbouring countries in Europe have all ditched PAL for COFDM this problem is going to happen.
So, once again, I reiterate - if you want good, stable Freeview reception use the best possible roof-mounted aerial with a clear line-of-sight to the transmitter you can get the strongest signal from. Use satellite grade, unbroken cable to connect to the set-top box or TV.
This is because all broadcast signals vary with the atmospheric changes, so if you want reception 100% of the time, and not just 98% you need to consider this.
Also, if you still have problems after Thursday noon, please re-post as your problem lies elsewhere.
Briantist
Wednesday 20 February 2008 2:16PM
Tony: The "low" ratings above on EFFECTIVE power are taking the 64QAM mode into account. Either get a bigger aerial or wait until switchover, those are the only options.
John
Wednesday 20 February 2008 9:46PM
Further to my posting yesterday. Have tried analogue from Waltham and it is suffering interference although digital is better than B4.Have tuned my Freeview PVR to Sutton Coldfield connected to my old OnDigital Aerial and so far this is fine. John (Bemused by some responses.I have no connection to anyone else on this site to my knowledge and my postcode isn't the same).
MJohnston
Friday 22 February 2008 11:09AM
We have had no Tv BTvision or Free
we have got Sky is there work going on in this area CA14 4 LX, TV went off last night
Briantist
Friday 22 February 2008 12:00PM
MJohnston: Are you saying you have lost Sky and Freeview?
PHILIP JOHN PARKER
Thursday 27 March 2008 11:37AM
Developers of a site above me have erected a large crane/hoist on the site and are destroying my reception completely.

do i have any redress, please?
Briantist
Thursday 27 March 2008 12:05PM
PHILIP JOHN PARKER: If the crane is a temporary structure, you have little redress. However, if they are constructing a permanent structure that will interfere with your reception, you can apply to them to sort out your costs in getting alternative equipment. Consult the planning department at your local council.
paul h
Saturday 17 May 2008 6:58PM
I lve at ex144xh and I seem to get alot of interference on channel 3 (ITV1) mostly in the mornings?
nick
Friday 8 August 2008 1:46PM
i currently am not recieving bbc1, itv,itv1 ch4 clearly,and channel 5 just displays the no signal sigh-has been like this for nearly a week now-any ideas?? i live in kingsthorpe,northampton.
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