Council aerial ban challenged

Barry Plumridge is challenging Harlow Council over their ban on TV aerials

Barry Plumridge is challenging Harlow Council over their ban on
Published on 14th December 2006 at 23:01 by Brian Butterworth
The Harlow Star newspaper reports today that Barry Plumridge is challenging Harlow Council over their ban on TV aerials on council and ex-council properties.

He told the paper "We're all paying for Freeview through our television licences, that's how it's funded, but we're told that if we want to watch it we have to pay again. It makes Freeview a total misnomer. Why should the rest of Britain be entitled to it but not us? I contacted the council to point this out and they basically said 'tough, the covenant stays'."

Mr Plumridge says he plans to erect an aerial early in the new year and will wait to see how the council reacts. "Hopefully, by taking a chance I can open the floodgates because there are a lot of people who are not very well off who are losing out financially because of this," he added.

A council spokesman told the newspaper: "The agreement between Harlow Council and NTL came into force in the 1990s when the Government introduced franchising of television broadcasting. As this agreement is due to be renewed in the next few years, we will look at the Freeview issue then."

As we have already reported, the Ofcom Consumer Panel, which informs the TV and communications regulator, have flagged up the fact that some people seem to be restricted from mounting an aerial on their roof.

A common problem

One of the most common problems reported to UK Free TV is that Freeview reception is often impossible with a loft mounted aerial. This is a particular problem with the two multiplexes that broadcast in what is known as 64QAM mode.

Digital television is able to offer a greater range of channels to watch by digitally combining (the mathematical term is multiplexing) many channels onto a single transmission frequency.

The transmissions use a system called COFDM, and this can use either 16 or 64 subdivisions (which is called a constellation). Using the lower figure provides a lower bitrate and fewer channels. However multiplex 2 ITV1, 2, 3, 4, CITV, Channel 4, More4, E4 and Film4+1 and multiplex A five, five US, five Life and BBC Radios 1, 2, 3 and 4 use the higher bitrate mode.

A side-effect of this high-rate mode is that is almost impossible to receive using a loft-mounted aerial.

However, after switchover ALL multiplexes will switch to this mode. The broadcasters will increase the power of the transmissions to compensate, but this will only apply to rooftop aerials.

Rooftop aerial bans

Long before people were horrified by Sky's satellite dishes appearing all over the country, the rise of television in the 1950s horrified some people. There were campaigns to stop 'the skyline being ruined by television aerials'. This has led to three situations where TV aerials were banned:

1.In conservation areas and national parks.

2.In some council controlled areas where cable TV companies agreed to provide free cable TV of the main four analogue television channels. This was an arrangement made under the Cable and Broadcasting Act 1984.

3. Where there is a covenant as part of the lease which forbids an aerial to be installed on the roof.

The Ofcom consumer panel's advice (section 6.31) is that: Section 134 of the Communications Act 2003 sets out the principle "that no person should unreasonably be denied access to an electronic communications network or to electronic communications services."

Some landlords and tenants may be unaware of the particular issues they face with respect to switchover. There is currently little information available about the level and understanding and expectations regarding switchover amongst landlords.

As new laws trump old ones, it would appear that the 2003 Communications Act would override any other restrictions put in before the act came into force, and would render any restrictions afterwards illegal.

Do you live in a New Town with a fixed analogue cable arrangement, or in a Conservation Area or National Park? Do you hate the site of TV aerials? Let us know!

Your comments are always welcome. Please use the form below to add your thoughts or questions to this page. We will get back to you as soon as we can.

What a stupid situation.

I must say though some aerial are a lot uglier than a sky dish, and at least a dish can be hiden. But its stil stupid to try to ban roof aerials. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Friday 15 December 2006 1:41AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Harlow is one of the worst council in east England. Satellite dishes are also banned. So if you are a foreign born British and want to keep some of your culture with you then tough! As far as I know generally Law says 90 cm maximum without planning permission. Harlow council says not at all! SO I am up for the challenge. Anyone interested in my support please email me at cypriot_01@tiscali.co.uk I was considering taking them to court so why not we do it together

Posted by another one (4 posts) on Saturday 16 December 2006 1:39AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Hi,
When I was in old address house, I took NTL and then moved to another address where there is not NTL cable area. Now in my new address house I dont have TV point in my house but I have indoor TV aerial.Now I have free NTL digital set top box with NTL card.Could you please advice me how to connect NTL box to the TV to view the free view channels through this NTL box.
Awaiting for your kind reply

Warm Regards
sunil
Posted by Sunil Kandepalli (1 post) on Sunday 17 December 2006 9:29PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Sunil Kandepalli: The NTL box you leased from NTL only operates with digital cable TV and is not compatible with Sky or Freeview. Under normal contract you should return the box to NTL. Unlike Sky and Freeview you do not own the equipment.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Sunday 17 December 2006 10:43PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Since I challenged Harlow Council, NTL have introduced a package whereby those people who subscribe to their telephone service can obtain Freeview for a one off payment of £25.00, which includes a Freeview box and installation. As I am a telephone subscriber I have taken advantage of this and now have Freeview, Basically, this was an offer I couldn't refuse as the cost of erecting an aerial and buying a set top box would have been about £400.

However, this doesn't resolve the issue for those people who do not have NTL telephone, so I am continuing to use my best endeavours, such as they are to fight on their behalf.

I do believe that Harlow Council themselves believe the ban is unenforceable; the last email I had from cllr. Rob Eschle seriously intimated that this was the case.

Anyone in Harlow who is prepared to challenge the Council will have my full support, and I will assist them as far as I am able.
Posted by Barry Plumridge (4 posts) on Thursday 21 December 2006 8:51PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Barry Plumridge: Thanks for the information. I presume that you will be getting a NTL box, rather than a Freeview one. Do you know if this will be a loan box? Do you have a contact phone number or email address for anyone else in Harlow who may wish to take advantage of this offer?
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Thursday 21 December 2006 9:17PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Is is an NTL loan box, the £25 is to cover the cost of installation. As far as I can tell it enables you to receive all the freeview channels. Remember this is only available to subcribers to NTL's telephone service. Dial 150 from your NTL 'phone and speak to customer services. I have to say I found them very helpful (and coming from me that's praise indeed).
Posted by Barry Plumridge (4 posts) on Thursday 21 December 2006 9:52PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Is it ntl Free TV - Alphabetical Channel Listing? You can save £10 on the joining fee - making it £15 if you sign up online.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Thursday 21 December 2006 9:56PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
It would appear so, yes!
Posted by Barry Plumridge (4 posts) on Thursday 21 December 2006 9:59PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
As long as you don't mind the ''6p connection fee applies to all chargeable calls made by ntl telephone customers'' bit.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Thursday 21 December 2006 10:06PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Remind me is this the 21st century, or the 19th?

I bet the council like collecting the revenue from mobile phone masts on ther land. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 3:44PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Ian Grice: I guess that the New Towns were certainly part of the 20th Century. It certainly never occured to me that the council may get some form of payment or that council members have benefited from this policy. I never understood why the New Towns didn't want to have TV aerials.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 4:45PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
put one up or a dish and cover it in plastic flowers in the summer and tinsal in the winter. Might get away with it. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 6:13PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
I would be tempted to dig a hole in the garden and hide a dish in it. could always pull a big plant pot over it if a council member came round LOL (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 6:36PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
There is some goverment information about dishes here: Installation of satellite television dishes: householder's planning guide
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 7:34PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Just found this on ebay

ebay Cubsat (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 7:38PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
this is ther home page

http://www.itbusa.net/cubsat.asp(map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 8:01PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
It gets better. ther is a UK supplyer and even a Sat globe!

http://www.digicams-uk.com/index.htm (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 11:35PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
why arnt my links coming up?? (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Saturday 23 December 2006 11:36PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
For mor info and diferant prices do a google search for Cubsat, cubesat, digicube and DigiGlobe. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Sunday 24 December 2006 12:25AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Ian Grice: if you attempt to post URI code, the spam filter will delete the post.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Sunday 24 December 2006 1:26AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Ok thanks for that, Do you know if any of those hiden dishes work?

Could solve a lot of problems if they do. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Sunday 24 December 2006 2:05AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Ian Grice: I had a squarial once, and that worked!
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Sunday 24 December 2006 3:08AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
One should look and see what is the restriction on having an aerial is, where restrictions are in place.


In many cases it can state, a ROOF TOP aerial is banned, and can not be errected, so get around it and have it fitted at a lower area, maybe on a garage, or outer walll, or the side of the building.

In 2012 the analogue T.V. will be switched off in all areas of the U.K. and replaced with Digital.

At the time of analogue T.V. the indoor aerial was fine in most areas, and those people living in a weak signal area, could always get a booster, however to receive a digital signal in a weak area, even with a booster on an indoor digital area, a signal can not be obtained.

So lets take a case of a weak signal area, where an aerial is not allowed on the property, be it private landlord, or council, and there is no alternative such as Sky or a Cable company operating in the area,

One would be depribed of watching T.V. then, and I ask '' is this a human right ?'' that all persons should have the right to watch T.V. ?

Private landlords / Councils that at present have such restrictions and these were put in place many years ago, when only analogue T.V. was on offer, and an indoor aerial could then have been used, should now give all it's tennants the right to be able to watch digital T.V. and maybe by having just one aerial on its roof, with a multi booster coming off of it, in the same way you see many sets being operated in shops.

This would be a lot less unsightly that where we see these high rise blocks with dozens of aerials on them, when basicly they would have been able to get away with only one, had a little forethought have been given, so ask all people in areas where there is a problem to chase up their landlords / Councils and if a problem, then contact the media and show them up

Milke Blaxall
Posted by Michael Blaxall (4 posts) on Saturday 13 January 2007 2:35PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Michael Blaxall: it does not need to be a 'human right' to erect a television aerial, because the right is granted under Section 134 of the Communications Act 2003.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Saturday 13 January 2007 4:15PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Unfortunately apart from talking no actual action has been taken against Harlow Council. They do whatever they want to do as long as they are not bothered! This is the case in all areas. Why should I use NTL phone line in order to get Freeview? Why do I even have to get a home phone line at all? I wish to use satellite and receive free channels only. I should be able to use satellite dish up to 90 cm. So here is my suggestion; Lets write to Harlow Council stating the current law and ask them to review their NO aerial Policy. Are you up for it? Let me know @ cypriot_01@tiscali.co.uk

Thanks
(map)
Posted by cypriot_01 (4 posts) on Friday 19 January 2007 1:31AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Have you tryied going to the local press? Or even contact Watchdog. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Sunday 21 January 2007 11:19PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
How would they help me? Harlow council should change it's policy,right? The law is changed in 2003.Would that automatically overwrite the councils policy? If so what should I say to watchdog? (map)
Posted by cypriot_01 (4 posts) on Monday 22 January 2007 9:46PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
cypriot_01: yes, in English law any new law overrides an old one. The council's policy is now illegal.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Monday 22 January 2007 10:38PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
contact them and ask them for a statment in writing that aerials are not alowed then you have writen proof that they are breaking the law.

Then you can go to the press, they love it when local authoratys mess up. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Tuesday 23 January 2007 1:12PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Surely the smart move would be to put an aerial up, then let them take legal action - rather than taking legal action to debate the right to put an aerial up.

The difference is that Harlow council would have to initiate the action, something they simply would not do if their position was untenable....

Put the aerial up, wait for them to take you to court. If they do, then they've had advice that there's a good chance of winning (take the aerial down before the court date). No court summons - you've won by default.


Whereas if you take them to court, they're forced to fight or settle - either way, the outlay for you is larger.

Glad my council aren't that bad!
Posted by mikeveal (2 posts) on Thursday 25 January 2007 5:01PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
I would get somthing in writing first from bothe the council and the new law as it stands, then put the aerial up. (map)
Posted by Ian Gricesilver (105 posts) on Thursday 25 January 2007 7:23PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
If you put up an aerial, the council would have to send you a letter first and you can write back and point out the Communications Act 2003 provision, and take it from there.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Friday 26 January 2007 11:19AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
More updates as a Tory councillor Simon Carter claims the aerial ban is a breech of Human Rights!
HEN News : Harlow Star : Aerial ban a 'breach of rights'? / HEN News : Harlow Star : Aerial ban a 'breach of rights'?
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Thursday 1 February 2007 5:50PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
I live in the Lytham St Annes are of
Lancashire and have installed a LOFT
freeview wide band high gain aerial and
have good reception.
I LIVE IN A cONSEVATION AREA AND TRIED TO ENFORCE A RESTRICTIVE COVENANT ON AERIALS BUT FAILED AT THE COUNTY COURT
Posted by Geoff FRITH (1 post) on Monday 5 February 2007 6:13PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Ref the argument re Harlow council and the 2003 Telecomms Act:ending up in court needs to be the last option, not the first, unless you have very deep pockets, or unless you can contain the action to the local County Court.
I doubt that Harlow would allow that to be the case. Other bossy councils would find such a decision went against their little empires too, so there is every likelyhood that they would gang up and attempt to escalate the matter to higher courts were the costs strangle justice for the little guy.
Remember the council has a big fat wallet to pay from called the ratepayers and only very rarely will you find councils being called to task for wasting ratepayers money on legal expenses.
They also enjoy a further advantage with access to such funds: they can deploy the most expensive of legal teams (even the cheap ones (hah) aren't exactly renowned for a sense of thrift when it's the client's trough they're feeding from) so you better be prepared for expensive consequences should you lose and have costs awarded against you. Yes, it's blackmail pure and simple, but tell me something new about the way the system works!
A better ploy would be to write to the council, maybe via your solicitor (slightly cheaper than their big brothers) stating the relevant part of the Communications Act and that you believe their original policy/rule now falls due to that act. Ask them to state plainly and clearly, in writing, their position taking into account the new Act. Most importantly you need to take pre-emptive action (before they come back with their usual all encompassing general bluff of "having taken legal advice") by asking them to name the source of their legal advice should they be considering quoting such an action in any reply. Also advise them that you will also be contacting Ofcom for a ruling.
That way you have at least carried out a decent reconnaissance of their position and the ground they will fight from. Equally the nature of the reply should give you, or your solicitor, a good feel for just how much bluff is involved.
Basic priciple of war: do not fight on unkown ground or ground of your enemy's own choosing, without expecting a struggle and possible defeat.
Re the post concerning Lytham and the fail at the local county court: more information needed. Do you have an exact statement of the basis in law that was used to defeat your claim?
Finally let's keep human rights out of it shall we, for 2 reasons: (1) compared to being tortured, murdered, jailed without trial etc missing a bit of the garbage on TV tends to pale into insignificance, and (2) they would just love to turn it into a human rights court case: the process could drag on for years at immense cost! Don't go there!
Regards to all
Peter (map)
Posted by Peter Jones (1 post) on Saturday 17 February 2007 3:45PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Peter Jones: thanks for the comment. I would hope that either Legal Aid or Ofcom could come to the rescue here. Yes, Human Rights is the wrong way to go, and we do need a High Court decision as guidance to all.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Sunday 18 February 2007 12:32PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
An update on the situation in Harlow.

On Thursday last, (1st. March 2007) I attended a meeting of the Council's scrutiny committee where Freeview was discussed. To give them their due, they are working hard to resolve the situation and are seeking a meeting with Virgin Media to ascertain what, if anything Virgin Media intend doing about it.

Joe McGill, one of the Council's officers stated that as far as the Council are concerned the covenant stays as in his opinion "the legislation (communications act 2003) is not retrospective" (sic). I did take issue with him on this pointing out that new legislation must by its very nature supersede anything which went before.

Finally, the "Freeview" service from Virgin Media does not provide all the Freeview channels, and following the spat between Virgin and Sky even less so. It could be that I will end up erecting an aerial after all.

Watch this space!!! (map)
Posted by Barry Plumridge (1 post) on Saturday 3 March 2007 2:20PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Hello Barry , you can erect aerial and nothing will happen unless someone reports you to council. Not All councils have a special team to go around and check if people got aerials. There are several points that you could argue on to present your case to council:

1- Virgin Media only offers you the so called "free" service if you get a phone service from them! So no more ADSL and you will have to get your internet from them to as their line does not support ADSL services.

2- You pay £25 for connection and the box you receive is not yours.(You own the freeview boxes normally but not these ones)

3- Virgin Media performs CREDIT CHECK before giving you any service. So what happens if you have a bad credit history or no history at all? Not fair for people on low income who had some credit problems in past.

So I say bring it on Harlow council, happy and ready to take this matter to court if needed. let me know if you need more info. cypriot_01@tiscali.co.uk

regards
Posted by cypriot_01 (4 posts) on Thursday 8 March 2007 11:01PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Living in Harlow with a total aeriel ban and being cabled, we tried to sign up to Virgin Media services for Phone/TV/Broadband, their site accepted the order and we heard nothing. I phoned today and was told that Virgin Media have reached their capacity in most parts of Harlow, so if your in that type of area as we are, then you cannot get the freeview package. Virgin said that they were going to get the finance dept to see if they had any spare money from next years budget to upgrade the green junction boxes, but until that happens, if it happens, we cannot have freeview etc.
Phoned the council and they can do nothing except to say that Virgin would put us on a waiting list for if and when they upgrade the system to enable us, and others to get it.Now sending a letter to Bill Rammell the local MP.
What a farce, as we have a son in the town who can receive the packages we want, this make a two tiered system that is unfair. (map)
Posted by Gerry (2 posts) on Friday 10 August 2007 2:37PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
Forgot to add that a Robert Robson a manager at Virin Media stated that Virgin Media have no obligation to supply anything other than the five standard channels that they do.
So with them not supplying freeview and a total ban on ariels, we are in a catch 22 situation regarding freeview etc. (map)
Posted by Gerry (2 posts) on Friday 10 August 2007 2:42PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
I hear people are using such box's to watch free cable tv channels(Eurovox cable box) what a shame for Virgin Cable Tv..

one way to receive free view. :-)

i have Sky Tv and don't use cable.. goodluck
Posted by mike (1 post) on Tuesday 15 April 2008 12:42AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
how comes i can not get the 4 free channels on my tv ,i was getting them on monday the 24th may.
I went away nutill friday the 28th may,and could not get them after that.
Posted by David F,C, Saunders (1 post) on Tuesday 1 June 2010 5:28PM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
David F,C, Saunders: Please see Freeview reception has changed? | ukfree.tv - independent free digital TV advice for help.
Posted by Briantistplatinum (22,318 posts) on Thursday 3 June 2010 10:00AM GB
Please report anything you find offensive. Report this message
updates
Automatic update every 5 minutes
Please post a question, answer or comment
  • Privacy policy: UK Free Privacy policy.