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What price for an aerial installation?

What prices have you been quoted and paid for an aerial installation?

What prices have you been quoted and paid for an aerial install
Published on by on UK Free TV
In responses to the guideline I posted about how much having a new aerial fitted should cost, Ian Grice posted: "£40-£50? Every aerial fitter I contacted wants at least £150+VAT considering you can get a class 3 aerial for under £10 and a class 2 for under £15 and cable is 40p a metre why are they charging so much for 30 minutes work?"

OK, for some places putting up a TV aerial is hard work, such as multi-story properties. As many people will simply be exchanging a Group A, B, C/D, E or K aerial for a wideband type, often without changing the supporting pole or cable, a high price cannot be justified.

I am concerned that some companies will exploit vulnerable groups (such as the elderly).

So, I what prices have you been quoted for aerial installations? What price have you paid for installation?

Do you know of any companies to avoid? Do you know of any companies that are good value for money?

Or do you work for a great aerial installation company?





Your comments: most recent posts are at the bottom

firstFirst comments prevEarlier comments  ◊  Later commentsnext Latest commentslast

Your comments are always welcome. Please use the form below to add your thoughts or questions to this page. We will get back to you as soon as we can.

Ian Grice
Saturday 28 October 2006 4:45PM
No John come upto the Midlands.
Briantist
Saturday 28 October 2006 5:03PM
john: I'll have to re-read it all to work out which posts to remove... might take a bit of time!
waigy
Saturday 28 October 2006 6:23PM
Took some time to read through the thread, but i'm not surprised by the rhetoric. I'm a member of the CAI and have been for the past 8 yrs. Its a family run firm that i have been involved with for the last 20 yrs. Most riggers in the past have been self taught and the only way i was able to test myself was through reading the problems page in the Satellite mags like a puzzle game. Since we joined the CAI i have been on most of the courses to give me further guidance and improve on matters relating to fault finding. We hate cowboys, this was the other reason for joining to put some distance between us. Unfortunately for the CAI, the good reputation, which it has built up over many years, is going to be tarnished with unscrupulous riggers using the brand name.
The CAI was formed for all the right reasons and brings together riggers from across the country for gatherings and a swapping of notes.
Getting back to the original thread about prices, I have no concern, whatsoever, for the prices others charge for jobs. I charge £65 + VAT for single 10 ele digital aerial and downlead. A further £35 for mast, lashing and bracket. £45 for a 4 way amp with additional £30 per point. I do not advertise and my van is not sign written. All my work is through recommendations and some don't even bother to ask how much it is going to be. I, like you are fed up of getting people to come round, pay good money, to find i could have done it better myself. I just want a good job and I'm prepared to pay a little bit more to guarantee this. I am constantly trawling the net to read up on the new technology and gadgets. From RF, composite, component analogue distribution through to HD digital and home networking, I read the lot, thus ensuring my customers get the best care and advice. When you consider the price sky charge for a call out, £65, and a monkey turns up, you can see why some very reputable riggers are up in arms at the suggestion of overcharging. Rogue traders are not exclusive to the aerial industry, its more to do with a sad reflection of our society and values, but thats a different story. There is a saying round our parts " if you're paying peanuts, don't be surprised if a monkey turns up"
Scouse
Sunday 29 October 2006 2:44PM
i would just like to make a few points after reading this thread. I am a member of the CAI and most members are quite honest in there work. I am well aware that there are cowboys who are members and we want them out.

It is quite understandable that the of members of the cai who have posted on hear are annoyed with some of the comments. The reason why is they actually give a damm about are industry and are trying to raise the standards of our industry.


With regards to the price of a aerial this will vary depending on where abouts you live. Round the nortwest we charge 75 + vat upto 275 + vat.

The advice i would give anyone is find out what you are paying for with regards to aerial type, mast size etc.

Just because aerials are for sale in shops for between 10 - 40 does not mean we should be giving these away.

Prices have increased but so has insurance, the need for access equipment etc.

Our industry is changing rapidly with new legislation etc. The decent members of the cai will carry out work safely and leave your job safe. With regards to the earth bonding of equipmnet etc this is no joke. I have seen equipment live in domestic propertys and SMATV / IRS systems.

Please dont think every installation company is out to rip you off, some of us take pride in our work and care about the industry.
Barry Benney
Monday 30 October 2006 9:53AM
Dear whoever !

I am a bit puzzled by all this talk of super-expensive aerial installations for Freeview.

I am a rather decrepit 70 year old on the State Pension. I live just outside Falmouth, Cornwall in what must be one of the poorest areas for Freeview reception in the country.

Last week I bought a fringe-area aerial from B & Q Penryn (£35) and an ASDA's set top (or actually by-the-side-of) box for £23. I assembled the aerial, stuck it up in the loft on a couple of boxes pointing vaguely in the direction of the nearest transmitter.

I eased my aching limbs down the loft ladder into my den, switched on the ASDA box and was soon viewing the complete range of Freeview TV and radio channels.

So why all the fuss and expence ?

A bewildered OAP who will probbly not be ripped off by aerial installers.
Ian
Monday 30 October 2006 11:53PM
It’s a shame we keep going over old ground, Barry it seems as though you are lucky enough to live in a good reception spot, not everywhere is like that, sometimes even us experienced aerial installers can not get perfect reception on all 6 multiplexes. Remember that under the Sale of Goods Act our work MUST be ‘Fit for the Purpose, for SIX YEARS’, yours can fail at anytime because you have no grounds to report B&Q to Trading Standards for your DIY installation. Analogue TV in the UK currently covers about 99.something %, when we go totally digital this figure will be higher, there could be up to 5% of the UK unable to receive any form of signal via a terrestrial transmitter, what would you suggest these 5% do Barry, pop down to B7Q and buy an aerial, after all, it worked for you, why should it not for them?
If everything was the same, and reading some of the posts on here people assume it is, why is it that a good mechanic can change the clutch and clutch bearing on a Mark1 Astra in 30 minutes yet on a Vectra it takes 4 hours, it’s only a clutch and one clutch must be the same as the next, both cars are made by Vauxhall so they must be the same, aren’t they?
Lloyd
Tuesday 31 October 2006 4:56PM
just been out on a free quote thought id try out the info this site provides on aerial location finder and it states that you shouldnt need anything apart from a FV box. as only 8m from Kilvey. well when i got there its a 3 story flat pitched roof in Port talbot sandfields. location is poor no digital showing at all on my promax explorer. gave a quote for XG8 A for kilvey 10ft x2inch mast 13inch galvernised bracket and lash kit possible masthead and psu + new cable wf100 to living room. 2 man job with all H&S involved 2.5 hrs labour required and i cant guarentee FV at the end so walked away.Just goes to show that an area that should work dosnt and an area that shouldnt does. Too many factors involved in the propergation of transmissions to use predictors. only way to be sure is with a spectrum. Good luck to all DIYers some will be luky and some will spend a fortune lining B&Qs pokets to no avail i still think the only way is to get a good engineer in to tell you for sure i dont charge to check in my local area only charge to install cant say fairer than that
sceptical
Tuesday 31 October 2006 9:11PM
http://www.satcure.net/reviews/survey.htm

have a look here for people cashing in.

delete if inappropriate.
Ian
Thursday 2 November 2006 8:04AM
Sceptical, that reminds me of those junk mail letters that you get which guarantee you'll win competition prizes, or the horse gambling thing where you can't fail, over a period of time, to win. But they all rely on a subscription, the person who can't lose is the person setting it up, in this case Satcure. The first three questions ask '1. What is your current expertise?, well if you know most things you are probably already in the game, 2. What is your nearest town?
I assume this is to try and find out if the transmissions are likely to change in your area, hence many properties requring a new aerial, 3. Is there enough business for another installer in your area? How could you possibly answer that unless you knew a) who many jobs per day are actualyy done in your area per day, b). what percentage are the existing companies completing.
I just see this as a scam with the only people being GUARANTEED an income is Satcure.
Liam
Tuesday 7 November 2006 3:39PM
Question to all CAI members
on the whole you all express distaste for the cowboy element of your trade you also express a great regard for the values represented by the CAI. Some of the recent posts have shown that there are honest & conscientious riggers who charge a fair & realistic price for the jobs they perform but resent the negative comments about the CAI.
As a lot of the negative comments have been posted by myself based on my own experience of the CAI perhaps a member can supply the statistics on how many complaints the CAI receive a year about unsatisfactory installations & how many successful claims are allowed under the CAI double guarantee .
Rob Law
Saturday 11 November 2006 11:56PM
I recently quoted for some work for a lady who'd been ripped to the tune of £170 by a CAI registered Installer for a simple aerial installation for Freeview.
The work I quoted for and subsequently did was for installing a masthead amp and wiring to three bedrooms. On reaching the job I noticed that she'd payed for a Group E 10 element contract aerial on Sutton Coldfield to be fair to the installer he'd fitted a new painted bracket, new lashing, a nice shiny steel mast and finished it all off with some RG6 cable(I was under the impression that CAI approved installers are required to use aproved components). I did suggest to the lady she ought to report him to the CAI, whether she did I don't know.

For the same job I would have charged her £95.00 using approved components.
Ian
Thursday 16 November 2006 8:41PM
I would have done it for £75.00 using approved components
mike
Friday 17 November 2006 8:09PM
Interesting,Ian and Rob. Just curious....Would you each care to accurately itemise here your job?.......all equipment used and your charge for labour ...for this 3 outlet system.
marvin
Saturday 18 November 2006 9:13PM
Yes Ian and Rob, lets see your breakbown of costs on this job! as a aerial installer myself i find it very hard to belive you can provide a quality install at the cost given
JW
Sunday 19 November 2006 4:48PM
I would this forum to comment on the nature of Digital IRS solutions: I live in a ground floor flat 4km away from the Crystal Palace transmission tower and get good Freeview reception. My landlord, who is also the local authority, wants to charge me £175.29 for a connection to Digital IRS, which is an aerial system that promises access to satellite TV, digital TV and DAB (just a connection, not the service itself).

I have refused to pay, endured a living nightmare with the authority who have instigated a totally flawed consultation and signal testing process, ignored my references to my lease, gone through the three stage complaint process (which has been subjected to very twisted research on this matter), and am now at the Ombudsman stage.

What is frightening is that flatted properties that are run by social landlords across the country are also signed up to this project. And who is the major benefactor? Sky.
Briantist
Sunday 19 November 2006 5:55PM
JW: Sounds interesting. Can you explain why they have done this? Is the charge a on-off or a annual fee?
JW
Sunday 19 November 2006 6:31PM
The £175.29 is a one-off although a more recent circular has said there will be an additional cost for maintaining the installation on an annual basis. Leaseholders like me would have to pay £30 for a call out. The contractor who installed the Digital IRS is CAI Vision Limited and the maintenance contractor is DC (UK) Ltd (CAI did bid but was too high).

I have a perfectly working £30 Sagem Freeview box connected to a simple internal loop aerial (like the kind you get with small TVs). There is no need to connect to any outside aerial.

I have refused to pay anything and refused to have the system connected to my flat on the grounds that it is neither an improvement nor repair. As a leaseholder, I am only bound to pay for service charges insofar as they are relevant. The landlord does not charge me for contributing to lifts since I am on the ground floor; an example I have given them to no avail.
JW
Sunday 19 November 2006 6:37PM
The landlord said in 2004 that this was to help us get ready for digital TV. In fact, it has proven to be a trojan horse to get Sky into flatted properties. My details were passed on to Sky but no one wants to take responsibilty: The leaflets I get make specific reference to the Digital IRS being installed on my block - who else would know about that? I am currently reporting this to the Information Commissioner. I have a copy of the contract itself which makes generous allowances to Sky on important technical areas and gives them control over information pertaining to signal testing, connections etc. If the landlord installed it and said it was there if ever I needed Sky then fine. I don't want to install a dish on my exterior wall so I can see the value of it. But I don't want Sky. I have Freeview and I am happy with what I have so why am I forced to pay for a totally redundant item?
mike
Wednesday 6 December 2006 9:01PM
Interesting that Ian and Rob chose not to give us a breakdown of their costing of the job! hmmmmmmmm......
marvin
Wednesday 6 December 2006 10:22PM
I'm with you Mike, I've been waiting a couple of weeks to Ian's & Rob's cost breakdown!!!!!!!!!!
mike
Thursday 7 December 2006 8:51PM
Come on then Ian and Rob, tell us or have you gone out of business because you can't pay your bills as you make no profit eh? AND what about guarantees to your customers eh?
Turnover in vanity, profit is sanity.
Merry Xmas.
Liam
Friday 8 December 2006 6:13AM
Mike yes it’s a little bit suspicious when people don’t come back with the facts & figures isn’t it so why don’t one of you CAI fitters come back with the facts & figures On how many people have been successful in claiming on the CAI double guarantee
Hey mike there’s an idea if you are CAI registered maybe you could give us the facts & figures
Or maybe you Marvin Interesting I’ve been waiting a month now
Ian Grice
Saturday 9 December 2006 12:41AM
good one Liam lol
marvin
Saturday 9 December 2006 11:45AM
Mike do you realy expect an trade body such as the CAI to awnser questions posted on a third party web site! I would sugest if you wish to post a question you make a direct approach to the CAI themselves!!! As for your previous posts on this site both you and Ian Grice have shown how ignorant you are of the work carried out by skilled tradesmen such as myself and othes who have posted on this site!!
marvin
Saturday 9 December 2006 6:23PM
The above message was of course directed at Liam
Liam
Saturday 9 December 2006 9:32PM
Thank you Marvin at least you bothered to post a reply However if you care to reread the previous posts you will note that CAI members are not shy about posting their comments and opinions indeed Les is not just a member but a director is he not?
So why on earth would they not want to post a few FACTS about customer satisfaction & care? This is after all the CAI not the CIA. As for Ian Grice and my ignorance of your trade I have based my comments on facts not fantasy I have made it clear that I would not wish to do your job but be realistic it’s not brain surgery and I find no problem understanding what it is that you do. So please forget the personal insults unless you can make them a little more entertaining .Ps maybe Rob Law likes to give value for money and is a very talented rigger who keeps his overheads to a minimum and gets lots of work from personal recommendations Perhaps you would like to give a breakdown of costs for the equipment a one man band rigger starting out would have to pay.
Liam
Saturday 9 December 2006 9:36PM
PPS Marvin I have had direct contact with the CAI and have a very silly and illogical letter to prove it
Liam
Saturday 9 December 2006 10:20PM
PPPS.Marvin Have you thought of having your keyboard or spell checker tested?
Breakdown of cost from an efficient & reasonably priced technician. To test Key board £0 He will tell you how to do it your self. Replacement keyboard wired £6_wireless £12. Comments you can spend more but you don really need to unless you are an enthusiast-To check word processor. Free advice & web address of easy office or other free and reliable office program. Result happy customer comes back when they decide on a new computer & recommend to friends
Break Down from Inefficient Technician .You will need a new keyboard & office program & your computer needs an upgrade to enable it to run the latest software
Test & Upgrade Computer new Keyboard, Motherboard, Processor, memory & power supply –New office software, O and your hard drive isn’t passing our integrity test so you really should replace that to. We can transfer all your data for about £50. Total inc Labour around £600 but we wont know the exact amount until we’ve carried out the work. Result No personal recommendations because the customer can’t afford to phone friends nor buy the petrol to go and see them.
Maybe Rob Law follows the former business model and some of your fellow riggers the latter.
marvin
Saturday 9 December 2006 11:24PM
Liam re you satement " its not brain surgery " realy goes to show how little you know of the industry, until you are able to put aside your personal opionions and enter into a debate with an open mind I see no point in any further dicussion! You should understand that every industry has a cowboy element but there are also those of us who take our work very seriously and stive to meet and exceed customers expectations, If you are unable to respect that i see no point in this debate.
Liam
Sunday 10 December 2006 10:20PM
Mike Sorry to be dumb but What City & Guilds course do you need for aerial rigging
I’ve found various city & guilds communications qualifications but nothing that seems particularly necessary or relevant for the level of expertise required for domestic installation. NVQ perhaps .Any riggers care to let us know their formal qualifications Mike maybe. Recognised training costs what do they miss out on the city and guilds because as far as I know city & guilds is a pretty comprehensive qualification. As for sign writing is this strictly necessary for some one starting up. Tools what expensive tools would you need to rig an aerial a spanner, Hammer etc Test equipment fair enough good bargains can be obtained from various auction sites.
Van? My car can take a roof rack & ladders with ease & a hatch back makes a pretty reasonable van to start with. PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE I used to have 9 million cover on a water sports centre I owned and it doesn’t cost as much as some people would have us believe and before you say it. No it’s not the same but insurance companies tend to think customers’ blowing around in a force 4 a mile out to sea is pretty risky. Criminal Records Disclosure are you sure this a necessity?
I know you like to justify your charges but be realistic you don’t have to buy a combine harvester to start up a market garden.
Liam
Sunday 10 December 2006 11:01PM
Marvin As I am only one of the people posting here why should one individuals opinions prevent you posting to the majority of interested party’s? Sorry perhaps I should rephrase that well known phrase that has offended you, with` it’s Hardly BEng Telecommunication Engineering` is it .I fail to see how a well used phrase brings you to your conclusions please tell us what exactly is it that one fails to understand about domestic aerial installation .As for my personal opinions & open mind surely your previous post were your own personal opinions on posts by Ian & Rob. ( !!!!!!!!!! I believe you commented) As for entering into a debate with an open mind perhaps you should read all the posts before you start attributing an inability to respect Your industry to me? Could you continue with some more relevant information? What would you do to cure traffic interference on DTB assuming all cabling, connections & equipment has tested as OK and how much do you think is a fair price?
Liam
Sunday 10 December 2006 11:15PM
A previous post about people cashing in mentions http://www.satcure.net/
I’m not surprised that certain riggers rubbish these people they supply a lot of useful information free!
Ivan Erection
Sunday 10 December 2006 11:20PM
Good to see this debate still going.I have sent a h few of my mates to answer any questions.Post away and if we can help ....we will.
Liam
Sunday 10 December 2006 11:33PM
O and Marvin my personal experience of a CAI registered qualified installer was turns up 4 hours late after booking appointment two weeks before sends young trainee up ladder while he sits in the van drinking tea trainee fits Arial without further instruction climbs back down ladder, hands end of cable to boss who only then uses a meter ,leaves cable in front garden & charges a fortune Hardly brain surgery is it.
What I think of that guy & the CAI response is personal not my general posts
Ian
Monday 11 December 2006 8:30AM
I’m not going to re-read all these threads but Liam I thought that you wrote that you were not present when you had your aerial moved from your loft to the outside; it was your girlfriend who was present. If that is the case then your last post is based on ‘hearsay’ and is therefore not admissible. Furthermore if it was ‘hearsay’, how can you start your reply by writing, ‘my personal experience’, if you were not there. I’m now beginning to doubt the honesty of your earlier postings.
Alan
Monday 11 December 2006 5:18PM
Gentlemen you most realise that many of the CAI installers who provide domestic installations also provide commercial services to. We install smatv, matv, irs, cat 5, cctv design, installation, consultancy etc.

We are not a one man band who turn up in a tatty escort van with ladders. Some of the cai companys employ upto 100 + people. Our overheads are quite high. We are charge a fair price for a quality job.

The crb check is a requirment of the new cai plus scheme. The cai are really trying to get rid of the cowboys etc.

The cai also runs many training programs for the installer, the city and guilds is for the smatv learning course.

The cai does not have the man power to check each and every job. The quality of the installation you get is down to the individual installer. If your not happy then complain, if you dont want to pay the asking price for a install then go somewere else and stop moaning.

We dont have to justify our overheads, qualifacations to prove our skills. Try looking at some of the cai companys websites and see for yourself.

You should be more concerned with the installers advertising in your local paper and yellow pages, working out the back a estate car with no public liabily, working on the side, no crb check or safety equipment.

Now take your pick?
marvin
Monday 11 December 2006 11:01PM
Alan has a very good point as a tradesman the overheads you have to pay have to be covered in the prices you charge, if you take the cost of buying and selling a aerial for example in buying that item you produce paperwork such as invoices that have to be enterered into your accounts ie book-keeper/ accountant, vat that has to be claimed back, again book-keeper/ accountant, cost of phone call to order the item ie phone bill,any new stock has to be unpacked and stored,The cost of fuel and wear and tear insurance etc on the van. When you sell the item the bank charge for the cheque you pay in, the invoice you give the customer also has to be paid for or the stamp, envelope, paper and buisness card. These costs may seem very small however they soon add up as a sole trader. Being a sole trader is not a 9-5 job you will often find yourself working 7-10 you may not be at the customers house but the van will not re-stock its self nor will the stock you need appear from fresh air! The cost of any tradesmans you employ should be fair, but if you look into all the hidden costs of running your own buisness it soon adds up!
bovvered
Monday 11 December 2006 11:38PM
Liam & Ian I think you have relatives in my area! Get a life and stop whinging.
If you had a case against the member in question your local trading standards would be more than interested but like the CAI they work on "NUMBERS!" Who once said "you can please some of the people some of the time...Etc Etc
I think you obviously fall outside the "some" catagory!
Rogue Members have been expelled in the past but one disgruntled customer isn't gonna do it.Many years ago when I first entered the Service Industry I was taught "the customer is always right!" But now a little longer in the tooth and "battle hardened" I find they are often wrong. Anyway in response to the original question £150.00 +! TTFN got a busy day tomorrow, again. I've got people queing up to be "Ripped Off" (NOT) Do you know they even offer their friends & relatives to the Slaughter!!!
Must be doing something right.
Capvermell
Tuesday 12 December 2006 4:03PM Dorking
I think the real problem is that Sky will install a basic Sky Digibox and dish for the minimum £15 per month 2 Mix package for one year and often offer the first 3 months at half price. So that's £157.50 for a Sky Digibox and dish installed that you can then also desubscribe after one year and resubscribe as required for one month at a time.

But then you can also order it from Sky through www.quidco.co.uk who give you the £50 Cashback that would go to Currys or Comet for signing a new subscriber up. So new dish and box installed for £107.50 or £117.50 if you don't already belong to quidco and also factor in the £10 joining fee. You could also go for www.freesatfromsky.co.uk but that is a less good idea as you don't get any subscription channels and even if you want to watch a subscription Sky channel after 2 years they make you sign up for a 12 month minimum contract with your old dish and box you have already paid £150 for.

Set against all that paying £150 or more to upgrade an analogue aerial to Freeview seems like poor value (with cost of Freeview box and its dodgily maintained Firmware that will usually always be abandoned by the manufacturer for further development in 18 months time) as the Sky Freesat platform offers free movie channels like TrueMovies 1 & 2, Movies4Men 1&2, Reality TV, CNN, Euronews etc which are not on Freeview and the choice of free channels on Sky is going to get bigger in my view to make life tough for Freeeview. OK E4 and More4 aren't free on Sky at the moment but that will change in the next 12 to 18 months.

And as most people needing a Freeview aerial upgrade are only missing one or two Muxes that's why it seems so expensive.

At my mum's house at SL2 4PG the ITV multiplex from Crystal Palace became unreceivable on any Freeview box (even a Netgem IPlayer which I substituted for a while and which is damn good with a weak signal) 18 months ago for no obvious reason but she gets near full signal strength on all the other MUxes.

So she either suffers no ITV2, ITV3, ITV4 and More 4 (she can get E4+1 from the National Grid Mux) or pays £150 or more for an aerial upgrade. Or wouldn't she be better off getting a Sky Digibox via the Quidco deal instead.

So that's why it seems expensive much though you aerialinstallation guys all seem to think you are £35k per annum men and not £17.5k per annum men and of course it this high salary level which makes your aerial install price £150 and not say £80,,,,,

The point is conventional aerial guys you do have competition from Sky and from Cable as an alternative so if you charge too much then people won't bother upgrading their conventional aerial. My mum's aerial sits there not getting upgraded for precisely that reason
Alan
Tuesday 12 December 2006 6:18PM
how can you say 150 pound for a aerial upgrade is expensive? If a aerial rig is insatalled correctly it will last many years with no problems. Yes sky is a option, but if you require extra brackets, mast or chimney installation see how much you installation price is then. Then you can either take insurance out for your system or pay sky 65 pound call out for a engineer to call out after 12 months. We seem to be stereotyped as the man that turns up with ladders and puts a aerial up and anyone can do that. Some of us are proffesionals and love what we do. If i turned up at your door i am not the man who fits aerials, i am the man who is responsible for the planning and installation for all the city councils communal aerials, hospital tv system maintanence and much more. Some of us are proffesionals if you dont want to pay the installation price then it's simple, do it yourself. The guys who posted on here, who are members of the cai are worth every penny of the 35k salary plus alot more.
Liam
Tuesday 12 December 2006 9:46PM Dorchester
IAN. BASED ON HEARSAY & NOT ADMISSIBLE
WHO ARE YOU IN REAL LIFE RUMPOLE OF THE BAILEY?
Yes it is my personal experience as I have personally spoken to & paid this person (I personally wrote the check). I have personally experienced the results of his work and I have personally spoken to my live in girlfriend or common law wife if you wish, with whom I have a personal relationship and I can personally vouch for her personal honesty after 10 years living together. Personally we don’t live in the Crown court, but I am sure she will appear personally as a witness and attest to the truth of the facts put forward in this hearing, although her personal opinion is that she can’t be bothered with the Internet unless it’s to do with shopping. Unless she’s lying of course and hides under the bed with a laptop, secretly posting to the compulsive liars forum. But her appearance is not really going to be necessary as personally having reread some of your earlier ghoulish posts my personal opinion of your personal opinion of my honesty is well personally irrelevant almost as irrelevant as your car repair analogy. I don’t mean to be personal but personally I find it interesting that rather than give your personal opinion of the job carried out by the person who fitted my Ariel you decide to get personal & question my personal integrity. I have deliberately included some grammatical errors in this post so that you will personally have some other irrelevant facts to comment on. By the way I have personally found a better use for fairy liquid than testing gas installations I have found that in my personal experience it is excellent for washing cups & plates but wasn’t a great success as a substitute for the brake fluid in the car although it’s cheaper & should have been ok because it’s the same colour. I may be lying of course.
marvin
Tuesday 12 December 2006 10:07PM
Carm down man!! don't throw your toys out the pram!!
marvin
Tuesday 12 December 2006 10:35PM
Oh and Liam when you say girlfriend or common law wife is that because you don't know if she's one the other, or maybe you just not sure? If I were you I should get yourself down to W H Smiths and pick up one of those DIY law books!!
marvin
Tuesday 12 December 2006 11:16PM
I would have only charged £17.99, plus I would have used magic micro waves and rest assured your steak would have been well done!!(I should point out thats 800W catagory E Microwave running on a Uk 220/240Volts AC domestic feed via a MCB/RCD).
Liam
Tuesday 12 December 2006 11:34PM Dorchester
O Marvin, Marrvin, Marvin
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.
Liam
Tuesday 12 December 2006 11:43PM Dorchester
MATV – Master Antenna TeleVision. In other words one aerial delivering just terrestrial based signals to a multitude of points via a network, possibly in a block of flats or even a housing estate. Many CATV (Cable networks) are in fact very large MATV systems.
SMATV – Satellite Master Antenna TeleVision. As above, but with the addition of selected locally modulated signals, usually from satellite but could be from DTT or video recorders etc. This is the type of system normally associated with hotels etc., but could even be a CATV.
IRS – Integrated Reception System. This is now the preferred method to deliver signals in multiple dwelling units. It gives the subscriber access to all terrestrial and satellite signals as if they were connected to their own dish and aerial. The head end is totally transparent


In a discussion about a fair price for upgrading a domestic installation to receive DTB why do people keep bringing in what is a completely different subject & if you continue to do so how about giving the per unit price paid by a commercial developer because I’m sure Wimpy homes & housing associations etc would tell you where to go if you tried to justify some of the more unrealistic prices quoted as reasonable here.
I would imagine that the skill level between the guys you send out to do the commercial installations & the guys you send to domestic installations is enormous as is the difference in the wages you pay them. As for the guy in the Escort Van if he does as good job at a fair price and better still is recommended then use him after all Woolworth’s started out as a market stall and not everybody wants the responsibility of a hundred employees & the expense of a fleet of sign written vans to pass on to the customer, nor does it mean that the sole trader is a cowboy just because they decide to remain a one or two man band without all the flashy accessories .As a teenager & a Hi FI nut I used to buy bargain British audio equipment from a tatty little back street warehouse in Birmingham and I do mean tatty it’s name was COMET and I wish they were as good now that they are big and flash as they were when they were small and without frills. It is interesting how the phrases` moaning, get a life, whinging, and my personal favourite "battle hardened I find they are often wrong” have returned .as if to Demonstrate the attitude of, I’ve got you money, I never make mistakes, and just because you haven’t received the service you paid for don’t bother us with your petty problems. Yes there are some good riggers out there as I’ve said before but Bovvered. And Alan even if you are the best riggers in the world NO! The universe your attitude to customer service stinks and Alan’s statement that the CAI work on numbers rather than individual complaints tends to reinforce my opinion of the CAI double guarantee as does the statement `contact trading standards & take them to court.
Thanks Alan for confirmation of my suspicions.
Alan
Wednesday 13 December 2006 1:30AM
For god sake liam why are you and others on here so obsesssed with us justifying our prices? With regards to smatv, irs etc yes i agree it is totally different field and pricing structure. As for the skill levels of engineers we send out yes some companys have domestic only installers but others dont. With regards to my attiude to customer service i do my best for them and i am honest. With regards to the CAI, you may of had a bad experience with them, i cant comment because i dont know the facts. At the end of the day these things happen in alot of trade associations and some times take a while to rectify. The CAI will expel a company for serious matters and numerous complaints. I cannot quote any numbers with regards to complaints etc to the CAI as i do not know.Liam if you have a problem or questions about the CAI ring them and have a chat. This thread was meant to provide some indication of prices charged for installs, instead it has got out of hand with comments about business set up costs, installers ability, run down the cai and name calling. Liam and anyone else who would like to comment what do you think is a fair price for a aerial install? Liam would you use another cai member again and were did the cai go wrong with your complaint?
Thanks alan
Liam
Wednesday 13 December 2006 2:32AM Dorchester
Alan Hobson -THE WIFE!-The DISPICABLE SPICS! -NICE you are right you should save your money for your society of chauvinist and BNP membership fees MARVIN the title of long term girlfriend or commmon law wife is a matter of personal choice that rests with woman and the man not a matter of tort-regulatory or statute law in fact in law there is no such thing as a common law wife it is simply a term of convenience often used when children are involved to prevent narrow minded peoples hurtful comments.These people are usually to stupid to realise that it is just a convenient phrase and has no legal standing. Do you have the address of your local W.H.Smith because you seem to need it more than I do.Law For Dummies might be a good place to start .Alternatively you could use your commonsense and use the wealth of information the Internet provides. After all you are already on the Internet as you type your ill informed comments.

Disclaimer the use of the phrase `commonsense` in no way implies a legal term and any person or persons whom may misinterpret the aforementioned phrase do so at their own risk and may be subject to ridicule.
Ps I`m only rude to rude people Marvin
Liam
Wednesday 13 December 2006 7:23AM Dorchester
ALAN
Almost every body that deals with the public should justify their prices. I have a sister who pays silly money to have her curtains hung, we tend to think that the amount she pays is ridiculous but in this instance she has a does have a choice, unlike the people who will have to upgrade to a digital system in the near future if they wish to watch the TV. I` hope you do treat your customers well and I don’t wish to imply that you are any thing other than honest it’s just that some of the comments in your posts seem less than sympathetic to people who have posted here reporting a bad experience when employing people from your profession. Regarding the CAI content in this forum. As the leading Trade association in this field I would think their performance was completely relevant considering the imminent switch over to digital.
Please do read the information given to potential customers on the CAI site & try to look at it from a customers point of view & then please post a reply if you don’t agree that it definitely gives the impression that if you use a CAI registered installer and something goes wrong the CAI will step in and sort out problems without hassle or nonsense. They not only express this as a philosophy but they also make a big thing of a no nonsense DOUBLE guarantee. They do not express the opinion that the quality of the installation you get is down to the individual installer nor that if he botches the job you will have to get trading standards involved and on their advice take him to court.
Maybe the thread has gotten out of hand but I find it extremely entertaining during late night work breaks and believe it or not I have never bothered to post comments to a forum before, but this one keeps me coming back and judging from the amount of posts quite a few others to. On the whole the personal attacks & business cost comments etc have originated with your colleges. Take a look back at the concentrated personal attacks made on BRIANIST by several of your fellow professionals in an attempt to brow beat him. Even though as far as I could see he remained impartial and factual on the whole. They just appeared to become irate when faced with his perfectly reasonable inquires I find the attitudes of a large number of you colleges who post here fascinating they are like fanatical fans who will not admit any fault in the conduct of their fellow workers they manage to ignore the positive content of peoples posts and leap on any negative service experiences like a bunch of rabid wolves. . I do admit to baiting the more extreme elements but on the whole I really do try to be impartial and fair. My own industry was party to one of the biggest cons of the last century the virtually non-existent Millennium Bug. The industry helped promote the idea that civilization, as we know it was coming to an end and it was so successful that some people were panic buying enough canned food to last for years. I know of a lot of people who made a large amount of money during this panic. Millions of pounds were fleeced from people who trusted the so-called experts, one of the major victims being the government of the time. That was a disgraceful episode, which must not be allowed to happen again albeit on a smaller scale, during the switch over to digital. Most of the guys I know in my game would be the first to admit that the computer industry has more than it’s fair share of potential Rogue Traders guests, yet a large majority of the riggers who post here get very worked up at the mere suggestion that people have been taken for a ride however much detail and information they are given.
Taking your questions in order. I would have no problem if you charged me the going rate for an installation as long as it worked correctly obviously this would vary depending on where the client lived but the £150 you mention seems reasonable for a professional installation in the West Midlands.-----Membership of the CAI would be completely irrelevant to me now that I know that it would be no guarantee of a professional & efficient service I would attempt to get some body who was recommend by a satisfied customer & I most certainly would not pay them until I had tested the installation thoroughly. If there was a problem and they didn’t want to sort it out then they would have to go through the hassle of taking me to court or being reasonable & sorting out the problem.----------I have covered my experience with the CAI in earlier posts please do read them , but Letters that state My reason for this conclusion cuts to the simplicity of the matter on two fronts one of which is: You have a distribution system installed that was not part of the installation contracted with *** aerials .We (the CAI) are in agreement that the diagnosis of any unwanted signal ingress could well be related to the coaxial system therefore not under any guarantee on the part of ***** aerials .Seems pretty reasonable until you know That the letter started out by describing my telephone calls & correspondence as lengthy but in those lengthy communications I made sure that they were in no doubt that I did not have a distribution system but if they wished to consider the coaxial connection between the free view & TV a distribution system the same problems occurred without this connection in place and with different models of receiver and with or with out a tetra filter etc etc etc also the fact they implied that the cause & solution suggested by the BBC various other professional bodies & even some of their own directors when approached for advice via their own companies was irrelevant. And yes it is CAI approved coax supplied by the installer. Also the fact that I didn’t give in and they grudgingly agreed that I was entitled to my money back does not instill great confidence in their integrity. I do hope you will reply as I would value your opinion on this matter and on the whole I do believe that the majority of company’s in your game operate with honesty & integrity but your public image is not being done any favours by this sort of treatment to customers from your most prominent trade body, nor does this blind loyalty by it’s members do you a lot of good. You the members pay for this organisation they are answerable to you and you have the right and the power to make them live up to the values and promises they express on their website. Insisting on excellence in customer service will only benefit your industry and help guarantee it’s future. It is also your best weapon in combating the proliferation of cowboys during what in the next few years, will probably be your busiest period since television first became affordable & the most popular form of entertainment for the general public. Blimey got a bit carried away there
alan
Wednesday 13 December 2006 3:00PM
LIAM i have read the cai page and yes it does give the the impression that the CAi will step in and sort your problem out. If you only had a single aerial fitted i cannnot see why this was not sorted out. Even if a customer has a distrubution system in normally the only extras that need to be fitted is a attenuator, filter or replacment amp if faulty, not a problem. With regards to vunerable people being ripped off yes there is a problem there, i see this constantly with poor installations and over priced installations. This also applies to the commercial market for smatv, matv, irs etc. The cai does alot for the industry and has some really good members, unfortanatly some are not so good. My personal view on complaints to them is that if they receive a complaint it should be dealt with, if the original company will not sort it out they should send a company who will. If it is a company who employs a number of men and the complaints are always about one mans workmanship the company should get rid off them or re-train them as he cannot do his job. If it is the company in general simple throw them out the cai, but do it fairly offer them the chance to change there ways, educate them but after so many times get rid of them. I have seen some installations done by fellow installers some are excellent but some are a disgrace. Digital seems to be the new buzz word which alot of people are cashing in on. The next will be high definition.
The next few years will be busy for the industry but will i be busy, the domestic market round are area has been killed by some installers offering aerial installations for next to nothing and we wont be getting involved in a price war are prices will stay the same.
The commercial market will be a problem especially with sheltered housing, nursing homes etc. some companys are offering wrong advice installing the wrong type of system etc which will still need work for the switchover. In the commercial side there is always people who know about plumbing, electrics, building etc but not Rf distrubution that is the failing on that side it lets some companys take advantage of that fact. The same in the domestic market Mrs jones 68 years of age being told she needs a super high gain aerial with a special digital amplifier for £380 or she wont have tv etc. The cai needs to address the problem and get rid of the bad element, but the same goes for the local papers, yellow pages etc. They should insist that the companys advertising provide a crb check, insurance documents, acreditation of skills and have some form of feedback from customers but that is in a ideal world. This would be possible if enough installers made a fuss.
alan hobson
Wednesday 13 December 2006 7:27PM
blimey i didnt take into account there was already another alan postng on here so most people have now got thier lines crossed thinking we are one and the same? i did sign off alan hobson to save this situation happening again, my comment on goin for a meal was my very first offering,im new to this but an old hand atthe aerial game having served 35 yrs.yes long enough in the tooth to be able to spel if i wont ,sorry the light went out for a mo,p.s. im also a lomg standing member of the cai ,bye for now with my new non de plume ,a.h.
Carpy
Wednesday 13 December 2006 9:38PM
£40-£50? You've got to be on drugs to think you'll get anything resembling a decent installation for that.

I'll list the parts required for a typical installation.

1) A good quality aerial costs about £12-£25
2) Hot dipped galvanised bracket + lashing kit costs about £11
3) Decent grade aluminium mast £5-£25
4) Benchmarked cable £6 approx
5) Screened wall socket + backbox + Antiference coax plug! £7

So that's just the raw materials which comes to anything from £41 up to £74

Then you've got the cost of all the equipment which runs into the tens of thousands. Vans, spectrum analysers, backup meters, corded + cordless SDS drills, PPE equipment, (respiratory + fall arrest equipment) ladders etc.

Everything needs checking, updating, upgrading, servicing, replacing, renewing. It's a non stop process. As soon as something big is paid for theres always something else. Then something gets stolen and it's another £1850 that has to come from somewhere.

Then of course there's all the other stuff like the taxman, public liability, vehicle insurance, vehicle tax, injury insurance, tools insurance, training costs, accountants fees, accounting fees (software), advertising costs, website costs, administration fees, paperwork, computers, stationary, invoices, phone lines, internet, fax lines.

Also regarding the original comment of £40-£50 for half an hours work installing an aerial, there's no way on this earth you could do a proper job in half an hour. Try one and a half hours minimum and you'll be closer. That's if everything goes smoothly.

I charge on average about £150 for an installation and i've got more work that I can cope with, most of which comes from recommendations from previous happy customers. I've replaced literally hundreds of poor quality, poorly installed aerials some of which are only a year or so old. Buy cheap buy twice. I wouldn't be at all suprised if my installations lasted 25 years or more providing excellent reception all the while.

What's the old adage again adapted from the Oscar Wilde saying? "A fool knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".



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